NEVEER say Tim Duncan THE CHOKER is better than Kobe Bryant

[SOD 21]

Like I said in that thread, how come the two yield different results? Show me a teammate who is less than glowing when speaking about Duncan. Then go look at all the teammates who have had major issues with Kobe.

I don't know what you're talking about because Smush Parker is the president of the Kobe Bryant fan club.

[T_L_P]

I don't know what you're talking about because Smush Parker is the president of the Kobe Bryant fan club.

Shaq, Phil, Walker, Dwight. It's not just one teammate who had issues with him.

[DMAVS41]

Kobe Bryant has still appeared in more NBA finals, has more championships and has won four of the six playoff series against Tim Duncan.

TD has some work to do. Plus as the years have gone by, it has become more and more obvious that San Antonio's success is just as much, if not more, about Gregg Popovich and their system than anything about Tim Duncan.

He is a great player though and is definitely on the lower end of the top 10 all-time.

4 of Kobe's finals came with Shaq.

Stop ignoring this. Not only did Duncan not have a player close to as good as Shaq, but he had to go against Shaq.

Again, imagine Duncan and Shaq played together from 98 through 05.

How many finals is Kobe making during that time on teams like the Spurs?

The answer is likely 0...perhaps 1.

Kobe fans always do this. Stop ignoring that 4 of his 7 finals appearances came while playing with a top 8 player of all time in his prime/peak.

[kennethgriffin]

Like I said in that thread, how come the two yield different results? Show me a teammate who is less than glowing when speaking about Duncan. Then go look at all the teammates who have had major issues with Kobe.

answer my question


what is a choker to you. what does it mean to choke under pressure

like if i go outside and lose to kids half my skill level more often than i win against them. am i playing up to my abilities? no... i'm choking


people always like to boast about duncans winning percentage in the regular season. but what is his winning percentage with #1 seeds or better records in the playoffs

not good. he beats up on teams when it doesnt matter. then loses when somethings actually on the line


if he loses this finals


5 losses with the #1 seed

4 nba titles

8 losses with home court advantage





hold on... i'm actually interested in finding out how many times duncans lost with a series lead... brb

[T_L_P]

Plus as the years have gone by, it has become more and more obvious that San Antonio's success is just as much, if not more, about Gregg Popovich and their system than anything about Tim Duncan.

The same applies to Phil. Before Phil Kobe was a role player. Then when he left Kobe missed the Playoffs. Then when he left again his team became completely irrelevant.

[SOD 21]

Shaq, Phil, Walker, Dwight. It's not just one teammate who had issues with him.

He can be a pain in the ass, no doubt. At times Michael Jordan had differences with some of his teammates, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was notorious for being moody and unfriendly and Wilt is known for being selfish.

Being a nice guy and leaving your teammates with a warm fuzzy feeling isn't a prerequisite for greatness, even though it may cause someone to be less likable.

With Kobe Bryant, you take the good with the bad.

[T_L_P]

answer my question


what is a choker to you. what does it mean to choke under pressure

like if i go outside and lose to kids half my skill level more often than i win against them. am i playing up to my abilities? no... i'm choking


people always like to boast about duncans winning percentage in the regular season. but what is his winning percentage with #1 seeds or better records in the playoffs

not good. he beats up on teams when it doesnt matter. then loses when somethings actually on the line


if he loses this finals


5 losses with the #1 seed

4 nba titles

8 losses with home court advantage





hold on... i'm actually interested in finding out how many times duncans lost with a series lead... brb

I'll reply when you reply to this:

Kenneth, you just make up the criteria as you go along.

How is being the 1st seed and losing to the 4th seed worse than finishing with the 7th seed even though you were the title favourites before the season, or at least the favourites to come out of the West? No doubt you'll say Dwight, Nash and Pau got injured, which is actually a fair excuse...so why don't you do the same for Duncan in some of his losses? He was without Derek Anderson, his second option, for the Lakers series in '01, and he was without Robinson for half the Lakers series in 02. Manu Ginobili missed the 2009 Playoffs.

At least remain consistent.

[SOD 21]

The same applies to Phil. Before Phil Kobe was a role player. Then when he left Kobe missed the Playoffs. Then when he left again his team became completely irrelevant.

Yeah, he was a role player when he was 18 years old and 19 years old and still developing as a player.

But yes, Phil Jackson was important to his development and a little similar to what Greg Popovich was able to do with San Antonio. However, San Antonio has been able to continue to excel and succeed with a diminishing Tim Duncan because of the talent brought in by the San Antonio's front office and Great Popovich's ability to maximize the talent on that team.

I have become more and more of a fan of Great Popovich over the years because he has demonstrated that he is truly one of the all-time great coaches.

[PJR]

Pretty sure Kobe missed the playoffs a year in his prime, and choked a 3-1 series lead.

[qrich]

NEVEER say Kobe THE PLAYOFF MISSER is better than Tim Duncan

[T_L_P]

He can be a pain in the ass, no doubt. At times Michael Jordan had differences with some of his teammates, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was notorious for being moody and unfriendly and Wilt is known for being selfish.

Being a nice guy and leaving your teammates with a warm fuzzy feeling isn't a prerequisite for greatness, even though it may cause someone to be less likable.

With Kobe Bryant, you take the good with the bad.

When did I shoot down his playing ability in my post? All I said was Duncan is unanimously considered the greater teammate, a guy who everybody respects and who everybody feels respected by. Kobe, on the other hand, is about as hated a superstar as any other I've seen. Shaq and Phil could barely handle him, then there's all the shit with the role players and Dwight. Nash basically called him an asshole but he said it didn't affect him, it affected Dwight.

So, whilst Duncan didn't talk to Parker in his first year, more because he is intrinsically quiet, he is still regarded as the ultimate teammate, even though you shot that idea down in your post. You wrote, "Kobe is the better teammate." Care to explain how or why, as I have done for Duncan?

[T_L_P]

Yeah, he was a role player when he was 18 years old and 19 years old and still developing as a player.

But yes, Phil Jackson was important to his development and a little similar to what Greg Popovich was able to do with San Antonio. However, San Antonio has been able to continue to excel and succeed with a diminishing Tim Duncan because of the talent brought in by the San Antonio's front office and Great Popovich's ability to maximize the talent on that team.

I have become more and more of a fan of Great Popovich over the years because he has demonstrated that he is truly one of the all-time great coaches.

Stop avoiding my post. Kobe has not done a damn thing without Phil. The difference is, Spurs fans know Popovich and Duncan are joint at the hip, the reason for the Spurs' long success. Kobe fans (alts) like you shoot everyone but Kobe down to prop him up, shamelessly.

In 2011, Duncan was at his worst: loss to 8th seed. In 2000 Duncan goes down, they lose in the first round (only time that happened in Duncan's prime). In 2013 Duncan establishes himself as arguably the best big man in the league again, Finals appearance. Popovich ultimately hasn't done shit since Duncan's decline.

[kennethgriffin]

tim duncan

HCA 2-0 series lead in 2004 ( backdoor swept by los angeles 2-4 )

HCA 1-0 series lead in 2006 ( loses to dallas in 7 )

HCA 2-0 series lead in 2012 ( backdoor swept by OKC 2-4 )

west 1st seed 3-2 series lead in 2013 ( loses to miami in 7 )

HCA 1-0 series lead in 2014 ( loses to miami? )




compared to



kobe bryant ( only losing ONCE in his career after having a series lead )

8th seed 3-1 series lead in 2006 ( loses to #1 seed suns in 7 )








more ETHER

[SOD 21]

4 of Kobe's finals came with Shaq.

Stop ignoring this. Not only did Duncan not have a player close to as good as Shaq, but he had to go against Shaq.

Again, imagine Duncan and Shaq played together from 98 through 05.

How many finals is Kobe making during that time on teams like the Spurs?

The answer is likely 0...perhaps 1.

Kobe fans always do this. Stop ignoring that 4 of his 7 finals appearances came while playing with a top 8 player of all time in his prime/peak.

And Tim Duncan had the luxury of playing with David Robinson, only one of the best defensive centers in the history of the league, for his first two championships. Don't forget that David Robinson agreed to take a lesser role for San Antonio to accommodate Tim Duncan in the 1999 season, he averaged 26 points, 11 rebounds and 3 blocks from 1994 to 1998.

Are we going to pretend that isn't an incredible amount of help right there, especially for their first title 1999? He now has had the luxury of playing with two other Hall of Fame players in Manu and Parker for another decade, not to mention Gregg Popovich that entire time?

Tim Duncan supporters are just as guilty as Kobe Bryant supporters of ignoring these facts, too.

[SOD 21]

Stop avoiding my post. Kobe has not done a damn thing without Phil. The difference is, Spurs fans know Popovich and Duncan are joint at the hip, the reason for the Spurs' long success. Kobe fans (alts) like you shoot everyone but Kobe down to prop him up, shamelessly.

In 2011, Duncan was at his worst: loss to 8th seed. In 2000 Duncan goes down, they lose in the first round (only time that happened in Duncan's prime). In 2013 Duncan establishes himself as arguably the best big man in the league again, Finals appearance. Popovich ultimately hasn't done shit since Duncan's decline.

Please provide one damn thing in the NBA that Tim Duncan has done without Popovich. Just one.

Stop avoiding the question. We can both play that game.