Who is the greatest player alltime that has never been the best player in the league?

[HurricaneKid]

Lets see.

Kobe won MVP directly over Chris Paul.. while being pretty much neck and neck in the race. In one of the last games of the season Kobe drops 29/10/8 53FG to lead his team to a victory while Chris Paul had 15/17/6 but shot only 4 of 13.

So regular season.. Check.

In the playoffs, Chris Paul and his team got outed by the San Antonio Spurs. Kobe and his team murked the spurs and went onto to play in the NBA Finals.

Playoffs.. Check.


Do people forget the help Chris Paul had?

21/9 David west.. extremely underrated player qand leader. His success on Indy proves he was not just a product of anyones passing.

14 ppg 55%( ) 3pt shooting in the playoffs Peja.. thats pretty insane

10/7 63FG Tyson Chandler.. pretty close to what he produced while on the mavs in 2011 when he got a ton of credit


Meanwhile Kobe had 17/9 Pau and 14/10 Lamar Odom in the playoffs.. and then the next best Derek Fisher. Those two are very good players, but lets not act like these supporting casts arent comparable.


And Kobe led his team to more regular season wins than Chris Paul.. more playoff wins than Chris Paul.. and won the highest individual accolade, directly over Chris Paul.

So he had a good game so you want to give him the entire regular season? Nah, I'll take the fella that had PG numbers no one has ever matched and led a team to a 17 win improvement.

People always want to point to 08 but Kobe was #8 in PER that year. He was #7 in WS, #6 in RAPM. And the RAPM was weighted double for playoff games. You would have to weight playoffs pretty heavily to get to a Kobe decision. And if you weighted them that much you have to go with KG.

I mean there was no clear evident #1 but arguing Kobe in 08 is more than a stretch.

[SouBeachTalents]

when did this happen?

I'd accuse you of trolling and trying to purposely distort what I said, but you actually might not be able to read

[tpols]

So he had a good game so you want to give him the entire regular season? Nah, I'll take the fella that had PG numbers no one has ever matched and led a team to a 17 win improvement.

People always want to point to 08 but Kobe was #8 in PER that year. He was #7 in WS, #6 in RAPM. And the RAPM was weighted double for playoff games. You would have to weight playoffs pretty heavily to get to a Kobe decision. And if you weighted them that much you have to go with KG.

I mean there was no clear evident #1 but arguing Kobe in 08 is more than a stretch.

If advanced Stata are the only thing you use to evaluate a player you aren't going to be right.

[SugarHill]

Lets see.

Kobe won MVP directly over Chris Paul.. while being pretty much neck and neck in the race. In one of the last games of the season Kobe drops 29/10/8 53FG to lead his team to a victory while Chris Paul had 15/17/6 but shot only 4 of 13.

So regular season.. Check.

In the playoffs, Chris Paul and his team got outed by the San Antonio Spurs. Kobe and his team murked the spurs and went onto to play in the NBA Finals.

Playoffs.. Check.


Do people forget the help Chris Paul had?

21/9 David west.. extremely underrated player qand leader. His success on Indy proves he was not just a product of anyones passing.

14 ppg 55%( ) 3pt shooting in the playoffs Peja.. thats pretty insane

10/7 63FG Tyson Chandler.. pretty close to what he produced while on the mavs in 2011 when he got a ton of credit


Meanwhile Kobe had 17/9 Pau and 14/10 Lamar Odom in the playoffs.. and then the next best Derek Fisher. Those two are very good players, but lets not act like these supporting casts arent comparable.


And Kobe led his team to more regular season wins than Chris Paul.. more playoff wins than Chris Paul.. and won the highest individual accolade, directly over Chris Paul.

Nope. LeBron in the regular season >

Couldn't care less if Kobe won the MVP. LeBron was better in the regular season just like Durant was better than LeBron the past year. Also, I'm not against the idea of Kobe being the best player in 2008. What I'm against is pretending like it's not close.

[ImKobe]

So he had a good game so you want to give him the entire regular season? Nah, I'll take the fella that had PG numbers no one has ever matched and led a team to a 17 win improvement.

People always want to point to 08 but Kobe was #8 in PER that year. He was #7 in WS, #6 in RAPM. And the RAPM was weighted double for playoff games. You would have to weight playoffs pretty heavily to get to a Kobe decision. And if you weighted them that much you have to go with KG.

I mean there was no clear evident #1 but arguing Kobe in 08 is more than a stretch.

CP3 had way more help in 08 and put up great fantasy numbers, yet got knocked off with HCA by the same team that Kobe dominated in the WCF.,,

Seems like CP3's stats are empty, since they aren't winning him a lot of Playoff games. Great players find a way to win games. CP3 finds a way to put up great numbers.

[tpols]

Nope. LeBron in the regular season >

Couldn't care less if Kobe won the MVP. LeBron was better in the regular season just like Durant was better than LeBron the past year. Also, I'm not against the idea of Kobe being the best player in 2008. What I'm against is pretending like it's not close.

No he wasn't.

Kobe was the most coined 'best player' from 06 and 07.. And 08 was like the pinnacle of his mix between elite individual play and elite team play.. He played his best defense besides 01 and 00.. Was the clear cut leader highest scorer best playmaker passer and most of all closer of his team just like LeBron. Kobe was flat out dominant closing games in the regular and especially during his run through the west.

Kobe literally won MVP over him by 3 spots.

And His cavs team in the playoffs took the Celtics farther than the Lakers were able to despite him having the worst series of his career.

Overall playoffs plus regular season, Kobe was considered better.

[HurricaneKid]

If advanced Stata are the only thing you use to evaluate a player you aren't going to be right.

Fair enough. But I think there are ~5 people on this site that can sufficiently scout players well enough to even bother discussing. And none of those 5 can overcome the deficits we are talking about here.

[TryToBeUnbias]

I Like the concept of the thread.

Let's stay on track here..

[Element]

Barkley or Malone..Admiral is in the convo as well, but only because his best years happened when MJ and Hakeem were at their peaks and winning titles