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Old 03-20-2008, 08:50 PM   #31
mlh1981
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Default Re: Lebron's Off-The-Ball Movement

The Cavs have MUCH bigger problems than this. This is kinda nitpicking. There are so many fundamental flaws with this team that fall on the shoulders of the coaching stuff, that LeBron moving better off the ball doesn't solve very many of them. Even if other players are able to become more effective, Mike Brown is just gonna inexplicably take them out of the game.

Varejao attempting behind the back layups and the PG's just giving up the ball after passing midcourt instead of attempting to run the position are much bigger problems.
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Old 03-20-2008, 10:28 PM   #32
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Default Re: Lebron's Off-The-Ball Movement

Mike Brown's offensive sets are horrendous, you can't blame Lebron, and you certainly can't blame him for having a poor teacher.

But people here on ISH have been ragging on Lebron's off the ball movement since his first entry into USA basketball, and he did pretty damn well last year moving without the ball while Jason Kidd was the main distributor.


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Old 03-20-2008, 10:38 PM   #33
determined2win
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Default Re: Lebron's Off-The-Ball Movement

maybe its me but i dont know why he needs good movement when the ball isnt in his hands, they end up doing good anyways
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Old 03-21-2008, 01:15 AM   #34
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Default Re: Lebron's Off-The-Ball Movement

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeWiz15
are you an idiot of some kind?


Please, tell me which star perimeter player is better at moving without the ball. Kobe and TMac need the ball in their hands. Melo is turning into an isolation player. Ray Allen has pretty much taken a backseat this season and playing as a spot-up shooter.

Let's see you form an opinion for once instead of typing 1000 word essays without saying anything substantial, this isn't English class.
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Old 03-21-2008, 02:01 AM   #35
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Default Re: Lebron's Off-The-Ball Movement

Welcome back LL, solid thread. Good replies fellas for the most part.
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Old 03-21-2008, 02:17 AM   #36
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Default Re: Lebron's Off-The-Ball Movement

Quote:
Please, tell me which star perimeter player is better at moving without the ball. Kobe and TMac need the ball in their hands. Melo is turning into an isolation player. Ray Allen has pretty much taken a backseat this season and playing as a spot-up shooter.
I just kind of omitted your lame stock insult that has basis in reality.. and I'll stick with your basketball-related comment that has no basis in reality.

Carmelo Anthony, Amare Stoudemire, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Shawn Marion if he counts (probably not), Rip Hamilton if he counts (again probably not), Shaq, Carlos Boozer, Antawn Jamison, Ray Allen, Josh Howard.

some of those guys might not be "good enough" to count in a discussion of stars, but they are all top notch off ball players who are inarguably better than Lebron at off-ball play.

Lebron James stands on the perimeter and does isolations. period. he very rarely catches the ball in position to score. by a factor of 10% he has the highest % of unassisted three pointers. that is a staggering statistic. you cannot look at a statistic like that and make any kind of case for so and so being THE BEST in the LEAGUE at playing off ball. that's just retarded.

I'm not saying that's his fault or that there's something incredibly wrong with that... but Lebron has not really demonstrated an off-ball game other than an odd alley oop here and there.
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Old 03-21-2008, 02:18 AM   #37
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Default Re: Lebron's Off-The-Ball Movement

Mike Brown may not be a good coach I don't know but people need to stop saying that players only move as they are directed.....this aint a dance routine......its not choreography. I am pretty sure Cleveland runs atleast a High School level offense in terms of complexity, and even on that level, the progression of a play (cut, screen etc.) is dependent on a read.

Simply put as well as he sees the floor and understands how players become open off him and where they should be and how to punish people helping on him away from their own man...He doesn't read the game as well as a player away from the point of attack.
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Old 03-21-2008, 02:20 AM   #38
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Default Re: Lebron's Off-The-Ball Movement

Quote:
Originally Posted by applejoe
Please, tell me which star perimeter player is better at moving without the ball. Kobe and TMac need the ball in their hands. Melo is turning into an isolation player. Ray Allen has pretty much taken a backseat this season and playing as a spot-up shooter.

Let's see you form an opinion for once instead of typing 1000 word essays without saying anything substantial, this isn't English class.

Well how the hell do you say Kobe doesnt move well without the ball. The triangle is off ball movement. He manipulates the triangle to get a lot of hit shots. Kobe's off ball game is way better then Bron'c currently is.
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Old 03-21-2008, 04:19 AM   #39
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Default Re: Lebron's Off-The-Ball Movement

Last year in the finals, the Spurs just but Bowen on him and played a little 'triangle and 2' defenses. Thus forcing Bron to move, and we all know what happened in last years finals.
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Old 03-21-2008, 08:10 AM   #40
Da KO King
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Default Re: Lebron's Off-The-Ball Movement

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20 Dimes A Game
Last year in the finals, the Spurs just but Bowen on him and played a little 'triangle and 2' defenses. Thus forcing Bron to move, and we all know what happened in last years finals.


If you take an active ball denial role on LeBron he becomes a non-factor.
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Old 03-21-2008, 01:57 PM   #41
applejoe
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Default Re: Lebron's Off-The-Ball Movement

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeWiz15
I just kind of omitted your lame stock insult that has basis in reality.. and I'll stick with your basketball-related comment that has no basis in reality.

Carmelo Anthony, Amare Stoudemire, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Shawn Marion if he counts (probably not), Rip Hamilton if he counts (again probably not), Shaq, Carlos Boozer, Antawn Jamison, Ray Allen, Josh Howard.

some of those guys might not be "good enough" to count in a discussion of stars, but they are all top notch off ball players who are inarguably better than Lebron at off-ball play.

Lebron James stands on the perimeter and does isolations. period. he very rarely catches the ball in position to score. by a factor of 10% he has the highest % of unassisted three pointers. that is a staggering statistic. you cannot look at a statistic like that and make any kind of case for so and so being THE BEST in the LEAGUE at playing off ball. that's just retarded.

I'm not saying that's his fault or that there's something incredibly wrong with that... but Lebron has not really demonstrated an off-ball game other than an odd alley oop here and there.

Wow, another fluff post. Try reading what I wrote, I said STAR PERIMETER players and you list Jamison, Stoudemire, Duncan, etc.
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