For all the talk about how internationally popular basketball is, its surprising...

[MavsSuperFan]

For all the talk about how internationally popular basketball is, its surprising how little impact foreign players have had on the NBA.

Other than the NFL, the NBA has been affected less than any other major league, by the presence of Foreign players.

Yes, both baseball and hockey have had greater impact by non-american players than the NBA.

In baseball some its best players are foreign.

Mariano Rivera- born and raised in panama, almost unanimously considered the best reliever/closer ever. In the entire history of the MLB 40 pitchers have , have an ERA+ of 130 or higher for their career. 15 have 140 or higher. 3 guys have 150 or higher - one is right at 150, the second place guy is at 154, and Mariano Rivera is at 205.

pedro martinez - born and raised in the dominican republic, Won the pitching triple crown in 1999 (lead league in ERA, Wins, and strikeouts). Posted ERAs of 1.90, 2.07, 1.74, 2.26, 2.22, which would be great as a closer, but amazing as a starting pitcher. His peak is arguably the best pitcher that ever pitched. His WHIP is the lowest of any live-ball era starting pitcher in MLB history, and his ERA+ is the best of any starting pitcher in MLB history. His career ERA+ is 154. Only 3 pitchers in history have over 150 for their ERA+ stat. He is exceptional has he has such a higher ERA+ stat as a starting pitcher.

Miguel Cabrera- born and raised in venezuela, Arguably the greatest player ever. He won the triple crown in 2012, completing a feat that had not been done since 1967. IMO the greatest hitter ever. Can hit for average and power. Career batting average of 0.321, slugging percentage of 0.567

There is no international player other than maybe Olajuwon that can be argued is the best player in basketball history at his position. Olajuwon's argument is tentative at best.

Other really good international imports,

Ichiro suzuki - born and raised in japan, lead the MLB in batting average multiple years, (career high of .372) and total hits. Noted for great defensive coverage and a cannon arm in his prime.

Matsui, Darvish, Nomo, Tanaka, Ortiz, Manny Ramirez, Yasiel Puig, Pujols, etc (I am missing tons, but I am too lazy to search for the info. Basically almost every MLB team has a huge non-american contributor.)

Basically players from South/Latin America and Asia can play baseball at an elite level. Winning the World Baseball Classic for team america would actually be impressive, rather than expected for team USA to win in any international basketball competition.

Hockey is mostly dominated by Canadians, and Eastern and Northern Europeans.

For all the hype Stern gets for popularizing the NBA internationally, Why is it that foreigners have not been able to make as big of an impact on the NBA, as they have been able to on the MLB and the NHL?

Everybody recognizes that American Football is basically an american only sport. But at the elite level so is basketball, at least to a much greater extent than baseball or hockey.

I mean sure you have tons of Europeans in the NBA that can be role players, but other than Dirk and Nash, and maybe parker, yao and the gasol bros, which non-american NBA player in recent history, would you want to build a team around?

If basketball is as popular internationally as the NBA claims, then why is it so rare to see foreign players come into the NBA and dominate? Players from Japan's major league get bought out by MLB teams in massive bidding wars. Tanaka was purchased by the yankees for $155 million. Something like that has never happened with the Euroleague.

Even sports like Golf and tennis have much better international representation than the NBA. In fact in mens tennis the foreigners dominate. Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, etc. The best player we have had in the last decade is arguably Roddick.

[L8krH8tr]

dam someone post a did not read GIF

[Myth]

Tony Parker, Manu, Dirk, and Nash have had 0 impact on the NBA in the last 10 years. Also, Duncan is from the Virgin Islands, but he is worthless too.

Let's also not forget a guy that came before them named Hakeem Olajuwon. What a 0 impact foreign player he was.

[MavsSuperFan]

Tony Parker, Manu, Dirk, and Nash have had 0 impact on the NBA in the last 10 years. Also, Duncan is from the Virgin Islands, but he is worthless too.

Let's also not forget a guy that came before them named Hakeem Olajuwon. What a 0 impact foreign player he was.

1. Duncan is from the US Virgin Islands. He is a US national and was born with the right to vote in any of the 50 states. The US Virgin Islands are an heirloom of american imperialism and we have held them since we beat the Spanish empire.
Edit: Duncan is as eligible to run for president as you or I. The US virgin islands is an american protectorate and given the military strength of the united states is likely to remain one for the foreseeable future.

2. I mentioned Olajuwon. He is probably the best non-american (Although he did play on the second dream team...)

Olajuwon became a naturalized American citizen on April 2, 1993.[50] For the 1996 Olympics, he received a FIBA exemption and was eligible to play for Dream Team III. The team went on to win the gold medal in Atlanta. During the tournament, he shared his minutes with Shaquille O'Neal and David Robinson. He played 7 out of the 8 games and started 2. He averaged 5 points and 3.1 rebounds and had 8 assists and 6 steals in eight games.

3.I have mentioned all the other guys too. my point is the NBA likes to pretend that basketball is second only to soccer in international popularity. I am just asking why compared to baseball and hockey, The NBA is much more American.

[RidonKs]

the answer to why there are more foreigners in the mlb and the nhl is probably because baseball and hockey have much longer histories in a few specific regions around the world. baseball in most of latin america, parts of south america, and specifically japan; hockey in canada and europe. basketball doesn't have that history.

but if you look not just at raw numbers of foreigners but at their geographic diversity, i think basketball has a strong case to make. stars from all over both western and eastern europe, latin and south america, a few top tier asian names, africans, russians, etc.

look at the names you just listed for baseball, damn near everyone is either from the caribbean or japan. hockey you get the same thing but from europe and canada for obvious climate reasons.

i think basketball is on the rise though i don't really believe david stern is some kind of mastermind behind its globalization. it just happens to have the same awesome features as soccer. the rules are pretty easy to understand and all you need is a ball and a net. hence people especially from developing countries can grow up playing it.



why aren't their as many superstars relative to other sports? probably for no reason at all, just happenstance.

[KevinNYC]

Yes, both baseball and hockey have had greater impact by non-american players than the NBA.

Hockey was invented in Canada. Lord Stanley had already bought his cup by the time the US took up hockey.

In 1892, realizing that there was no recognition for the best team in Canada (although a number of leagues had championship trophies), [Lord Stanley] purchased a decorative bowl for use as a trophy. The Dominion Hockey Challenge Cup (which later became known as the Stanley Cup) was first awarded in 1893 to the Montreal Hockey Club, champions of the AHAC;

By 1893, there were almost a hundred teams in Montreal alone; in addition, there were leagues throughout Canada. Winnipeg hockey players used cricket pads to better protect the goaltender's legs; they also introduced the "scoop" shot, later known as the wrist shot. Goal nets became a standard feature of the Canadian Amateur Hockey League (CAHL) in 1900.
..... by 1893 the first ice hockey matches were played at Yale and Johns Hopkins University.[26]

Oxford and Cambridge had teams before US colleges did.

[NuggetsFan]

Roster size and how individual the NBA is makes it seem worse. With hockey anyways. Way more diversity with the NHL but there's more roster spots and more opportunity. Prospects come over and get top 6 minutes or a decent chance, where as with basketball guys come over and get 15 minutes or whatever a night and have to fight to make a team with 12 players. Just makes more sense for some players to stay in Europe.

NBA isn't like the NFL but yeah how "international" it is seems overhyped by some people. I don't follow baseball but the NBA is behind the NHL. Ahead of the NFL obviously.

[TheReal Kendall]

That's a long ass essay

[duskovujosevic]

Basketball is getting popular, that is fact. There is no country in the world where you can't see basketball rim and net. Pick up basketball is secong most popular recreative sport among ordinary people (i don't have any source, that is just my opinion) impact of foreign players in NBA is not coorelated with popularity. It is coorelated with playing basketball on elite level internationaly. Communism was clearly barrier for Russia and ex-Yugoslav countries to open the door for international players. Hence, it is mid and late 80-s where we could see greater impact. NBA's popularity is unquestionable. From USA to remote placies in Africa, Asia there will be a kid wearing NBA jersey, but it is FIBA's task to donate basketball equipment, organize competitions, construct facilities, cooperate with local governments in places where profesional basketball is just a dream.

[Hoopz2332]

Roster size and how individual the NBA is makes it seem worse. With hockey anyways. Way more diversity with the NHL but there's more roster spots and more opportunity. Prospects come over and get top 6 minutes or a decent chance, where as with basketball guys come over and get 15 minutes or whatever a night and have to fight to make a team with 12 players. Just makes more sense for some players to stay in Europe.

NBA isn't like the NFL but yeah how "international" it is seems overhyped by some people. I don't follow baseball but the NBA is behind the NHL. Ahead of the NFL obviously.

NBA is far more international than NHL or MLB.

NHL = mainly Canada and various Euros

MLB = mainly latin American with some Japanese

NBA = Africa, latin america, Europe and Asia (all over)

...this isn't even up for debate

[tgan3]

Yao Ming anyone? I think he single-handedly made basketball several times more popular in China (With a large market of 1.3 billion people)

[Nick Young]

Here's what I don't get.

Basketball is such a massive sport in China, Taiwan and Phillipines.


China invests so much money into athlete training and finding their best athletes early from a 1.2 billion person talent pool and training them early.


AND FOR SOME REASON CHINA STILL SUCKS AT BASKETBALL! They have 1.2 billion people and basketball is one of their most popular sports, HOW ARE THEY SO BAD? I DONT GET IT! Ok yes Yao was a great player but apart from him the Chinese team and Chinese players have been busts!


Taiwan also is a rich country where Basketball is very popular? Why do they suck at basketball?
(Jeremy Lin doesn't count, he's American btw.


Phillipines too. It is a poor country where basketball is very popular, probably second behind boxing in popularity. High population. Courts all over the cities. AI and Kobe are probably the most famous athletes there besides Manny Pacqiao. you'd think some ballers would rise from the streets and make it to the NBA.


Here's what I'm asking, apart from Yao, why do so many Asian ballers suck? It would be much better if these countries start producing talent that can compete against the top American and European talent. Get your shit together East Asia!

[tgan3]

Here's what I don't get.

Basketball is such a massive sport in China, Taiwan and Phillipines.


China invests so much money into athlete training and finding their best athletes early from a 1.2 billion person talent pool and training them early.


AND FOR SOME REASON CHINA STILL SUCKS AT BASKETBALL! They have 1.2 billion people and basketball is one of their most popular sports, HOW ARE THEY SO BAD? I DONT GET IT! Ok yes Yao was a great player but apart from him the Chinese team and Chinese players have been busts!


Taiwan also is a rich country where Basketball is very popular? Why do they suck at basketball?
(Jeremy Lin doesn't count, he's American btw.


Phillipines too. It is a poor country where basketball is very popular, probably second behind boxing in popularity. High population. Courts all over the cities. AI and Kobe are probably the most famous athletes there besides Manny Pacqiao. you'd think some ballers would rise from the streets and make it to the NBA.


Here's what I'm asking, apart from Yao, why do so many Asian ballers suck? It would be much better if these countries start producing talent that can compete against the top American and European talent. Get your shit together East Asia!

To answer your question, I think China's basketball system is not optimal. For example, they value height almost ridiculously over skill. Even before an athlete has a chance to develop his full potential he would be cut from a team rather then give a chance if he's deemed too short. You probably have heard the story of MJ being cut in high school yet he became the GOAT. Chinese also value academics more than sports so even if a person was talented in Basketball he would do something else.

Anyway, the recent China youth teams performed well in the FIBA world tournaments (they were able to hold their own against the european counterparts). I believe the China team will improve in the future and be as good as the European teams.

[andremiller07]

Here's what I don't get.

Basketball is such a massive sport in China, Taiwan and Phillipines.


China invests so much money into athlete training and finding their best athletes early from a 1.2 billion person talent pool and training them early.


AND FOR SOME REASON CHINA STILL SUCKS AT BASKETBALL! They have 1.2 billion people and basketball is one of their most popular sports, HOW ARE THEY SO BAD? I DONT GET IT! Ok yes Yao was a great player but apart from him the Chinese team and Chinese players have been busts!


Taiwan also is a rich country where Basketball is very popular? Why do they suck at basketball?
(Jeremy Lin doesn't count, he's American btw.


Phillipines too. It is a poor country where basketball is very popular, probably second behind boxing in popularity. High population. Courts all over the cities. AI and Kobe are probably the most famous athletes there besides Manny Pacqiao. you'd think some ballers would rise from the streets and make it to the NBA.


Here's what I'm asking, apart from Yao, why do so many Asian ballers suck? It would be much better if these countries start producing talent that can compete against the top American and European talent. Get your shit together East Asia!

Lack of talent, there national team get's pumped by 3rd string Australian team's, the fact they have zero players in the NBA and probably less than 3 in Europe is a complete joke.

[Shade8780]

Basketball is way more popular here than shitty baseball.

Hockey is a mostly girl's sport here as well.