Statistical Comparison: 1991, 1993, and 2015 Finals

[3ball]

MJ 1993:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 41.0 PPG,[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 8.5 RPG,[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 6.3 APG, 50.8% FG, 55.8% TS, 1.7 STL, 0.7 BLK

LBJ 2015: 36.6 PPG, 12.8 RPG,[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 8.8 APG, 40.0% FG, 48.5% TS, 1.2 STL, 0.6 BLK

MJ 1991:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 31.2 PPG,[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 6.6 RPG, 11.4 APG, 55.8% FG, 61.2% TS, 2.8 STL, 1.4 BLK


Interestingly, it's Lebron's poor isolation FG% that is crippling his overall FG%, since isolation is what Lebron does most often - Lebron's isolates on 33.5% of his possessions, #1 in the league, but only shoots 32.5% (30th out of 40 in playoffs):

http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/isolation/?dir=1
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[iTare]

Yes, MJ is the best to ever do it. We get it.

[3ball]

MJ is the best

Agreed.. I give MJ the edge in both series, partially because his better offensive skill and stats (PPG, APG, FG%) represented superior ability to ANSWER the opponents runs at will, and therefore control the game better.. His superior offense allowed him to train the other team to play at his team's pace.. In these Finals, Lebron has finally tasted a little bit of that game control for the first time in his career, but ultimately, his inability to shoot an MJ-like percentage while still undertaking the MJ-like volume has cost him thus far.

Of course, the stats don't account for clutch either - in Game 3 of the 1991 Finals, the Bulls needed MJ to hit the Ray Allen at the buzzer to send the game into overtime, and then take over IN overtime to take a 2-1 lead.. Without that, the Bulls are down 2-1 with the next 2 games in LA (2-3-2 format).. Then in Game 4 of 1993, the Bulls needed MJ to seal the deal on the last possession to cap off his double-nickel and give the Bulls a 3-1 lead.

Also, MJ was 2-4 on three pointers in the 1991 Finals.. He got all his points on two-pointers (where the defense knew he would only take two-pointers).. He certainly didn't get any of the strongside clearouts Lebron has enjoyed all playoffs, where he gets to play his man 1-on-1 all alone on the strongside because defenders are trapped on the far weakside guarding potential 3-pointers.. Here's a thread about Lebron's strongside clearouts:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=378398

[plowking]

Can you post his 96 stats in the finals?

[branslowski]

Can you post his 96 stats in the finals?

Jordan fans don't do that.

[plowking]

Jordan fans don't do that.

I'm just wondering how Jordan's 5-19 in the closeout game helped his team win? He must have done something special to help his team win that Bron isn't doing.

[3ball]

Can you post his 96 stats in the finals?

MJ's stats were 32.0 PPG on 46% FG through 3 games to give his team a 3-0 lead - his stats after that are garbage time so they don't matter.. Who cares about your 4th quarter stats when you're up 30 points already, right?.. Those stats are just stat-padding.

Anyway, MJ had his best game on the road in Game 3, specifically because that was the opportunity to go up 3-0 and end the series.. So MJ dropped 36 in the Sonics' building, on all defenders, including Payton.. Most people don't realize that Payton guarded MJ for multiple stretches in each of the first 3 Games.. Otoh, when Lebron had the chance to go up 3-1, he dropped the ball - 20 points and a donut in the 4th.

Of course, in MJ's day, defenders didn't have to guard weakside 3-pointers, so they didn't have to BE on the weakside - they could remain on the strongside and/or in the paint at all times, and therefore [COLOR="Green"]closest to help[/COLOR] on strongside action..

Contrastingly, today's defenders DO have to guard weakside 3-pointers.. Consequently, you see the kind of clearouts we saw Coach Blatt do for Lebron - the clearouts give Lebron the entire strongside to play 1-on-1, while all 4 help defenders must defend against weakside 3-pointers, and therefore position themselves behind the far side of the paint on the weakside, and [COLOR="Red"]furthest from helping[/COLOR] on Lebron's strongside penetration.
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[branslowski]

I'm just wondering how Jordan's 5-19 in the closeout game helped his team win? He must have done something special to help his team win that Bron isn't doing.

This. Honestly Kobe, Jordan, nor LeBron fans should ever debate about fg% during important finals games cause all 3 players have shot super bricks during those key games....Yet, Jordan fans feel like MJ is God of gods so it becomes blasphemy to even acknowledge any wrong doing that their savior has sh!ted out....MJ fans are worst than Kobe or Bron fans.

[scm5]

This. Honestly Kobe, Jordan, nor LeBron fans should ever debate about fg% during important finals games cause all 3 players have shot super bricks during those key games....Yet, Jordan fans feel like MJ is God of gods so it becomes blasphemy to even acknowledge any wrong doing that their savior has sh!ted out....MJ fans are worst than Kobe or Bron fans.

Remind me, has MJ ever lost a series in the Finals?

[plowking]

MJ's stats were 32.0 PPG on 46% FG through 3 games to give his team a 3-0 lead - his stats after that are garbage time so they don't matter.. Who cares about your 4th quarter stats when you're up 30 points already, right?.. Those stats are just stat-padding.


.

A closeout is a closeout. What did he do to secure the win? A 5/19 performance. How did the Bulls win?

[3ball]

A closeout is a closeout. What did he do to secure the win? A 5/19 performance. How did the Bulls win?

MJ had zero help, but carried his team to a 3-0 lead and inevitable series win with 32 PPG on 46% against the toughest defense in the league.

[plowking]

inevitable series win with 32 PPG on 46% against the toughest defense in the league.

Those aren't his 96 stats.

Post the real ones.

[3ball]

Those aren't his 96 stats.

Post the real ones.

In the 1996 Finals, Pippen's stats were 15 PPG on 34% FG... and 42% TS.

Those aren't typos.. The defense was THAT tough - you've seen the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WpkXlrJxtw


Everyone's stats were horrific except MJ's.. He had zero help, but carried his team to a 3-0 lead and inevitable series win with 32 PPG on 46% against the toughest defense in the league..

^^^ Those are all facts.. No other argument is needed.

[3ball]

Post the real ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WpkXlrJxtw

^^^^ As that video of the Sonics defense shows, defenders in that era didn't have to guard weakside 3-pointers, so they didn't have to BE on the weakside - all defenders remained on the strongside and/or in the paint, and therefore closest to help on strongside action (from the vid):






Otoh, in today's game, defenders must guard weakside 3-pointers.. To defend weakside 3-pointers, defenders must position themselves behind the far side of the paint on the weakside, therefore leaving the paint wide open while being furthest away to help on strongside action:





With all potential help defenders behind the far side of the paint on the weakside, the paint is left wide open.. MJ never faced a paint that was wide open with no defenders.. EVER.. This is a fact..
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[plowking]

This many posts and still no sign of MJ's 96 finals stats.

MJ fans actually call other groups of fans insecure? Won't even post his stats over 6 games lol...