James Harden Defense vs Lithuania

[KungFuJoe]

Harden will never be a good defender.

For starters, he's not that quick. He's crafty, good at body control and can take contact and still make the shot. None of that means jack on the defensive end.

His defensive reflexes are horrible. Someone makes a move to drive to the hoop and he's always a step late.

But it really comes down to desire and work ethic. Harden has neither when it comes to defense. He doesn't care. In his mind, he's already the best player in the game (his own words) and the best player in the game doesn't need to improve.

[Mr Exlax]

Harden will never be a good defender.

For starters, he's not that quick. He's crafty, good at body control and can take contact and still make the shot. None of that means jack on the defensive end.

His defensive reflexes are horrible. Someone makes a move to drive to the hoop and he's always a step late.

But it really comes down to desire and work ethic. Harden has neither when it comes to defense. He doesn't care. In his mind, he's already the best player in the game (his own words) and the best player in the game doesn't need to improve.

Except we've seen him play good defense. He has the ability. He just needs to want to do it consistently.

[Milbuck]

Didn't read all of it, but read enough. See the thing is we do, or at least I do, hold Harden accountable. He really really really needs to try harder. I've said it a million times. He's no longer one of my favorite players because of his lapses on defense. He's young and has the keys to the franchise with a pushover for a coach. He needs a better coach though. If a player is slacking, I get madder at the coach for allowing him to stay in a game and keep doing it. The Rockets are young so Harden's habits will rub off on those other young players. I'd put my head on a chopping block and say Harden would be a better defender if he had a coach that shows him there are consequences.

Also, you're constantly bashing Harden for not being good enough. Why don't you ever comment on how horrible your favorite team is and has been for a while? As bad as Harden is on defense, he's better than anybody on your roster. He's better than anybody that's been on your roster for a long ass time. You guys started out trying to make the playoffs last season. Spent money and everything. Pathetic

He's 25. Yeah, he's still young. But at this age most if not all of the great players were focusing on refining their games..not completely altering it.

You know what other great shooting guards have done by 25?

MJ - Over 3 seasons averaged 35/6/6/3/1 and took them to the conference finals with a pretty weak roster aside from 2nd year Pippen.

Kobe - season of 30/7/6/2/1 on 56% TS with elite defense, coming after winning 3 straight championships.

Wade - lead a team to a championship putting up 35/8/4/3/1 on 57% TS

Now...

Harden - Shat the bed in 3 straight playoff series at age 22, 23, 24...and now at 25, I'm predicting another one this upcoming season.

Nearly all the greats were great players by 25. You're either a great player or you're not. But just to speak about defense..

You don't just magically become a great defender. It's gonna take work from HIM. Work that starts and ends with HIS desire. No coach can transform a player's game entirely. They can only help, but ultimately, if the player is hell bent on doing things their way...that's where it ends.


And not even gonna get into the Bucks thing. Keep letting me know how ****ing badly I pi[COLOR="Black"]s[/COLOR]s you off though

[CelticBalla32]

Harden isn't failing to reach his full defensive potential because of ability, it's the fact that he has so much responsibility with the ball on the other end. Like another poster said, Harden brought it on the defensive end in OKC. But now he's the man, some of it probably got to his head a little bit and he doesn't try as hard anymore. I don't think he's capable of being an elite defender, but he can be pretty good.

If he ever wants to win anything, he's gonna have to, but I don't think he's mentally weak like some other posters are suggesting. Even in the Lithuania game, yeah they went at him in the first half. Attacked him defensively and got him in foul trouble. But then he came right back and dropped 16 points in the 3rd quarter. He's not lacking toughness, he's lacking stamina to give his all on both ends at all times.

McHale definitely got too much heat for Harden and Lin's defensive struggles, but that's what it is. Every coach gets blamed for his players flaws. That's why so many coaches get fired.

[sammichoffate]

Is anyone else sick and f[COLOR="Black"]u[/COLOR]cking tired of Rocket fans constantly deflecting all of Harden's FULLY DESERVED blame on McHale?

Every. Single. Time.

Harden screws up a play, and because of the shot clock Lin ends up shooting a really important basket that Harden wanted, and Harden throws a giant bitchfit about it......"McHale needs to do a better job managing egos"

Harden turns his defensive matchup into a layup line for the opposition....."McHale needs to push Harden to play defense"

Harden calls for the switch on Lillard which results in a series-winning game winner for the Blazers, season-ending for the Rockets...."McHale should've corrected Harden and told him that was a stupid idea"

Harden doesn't shower for three weeks straight....."McHale needs to lecture James on personal hygiene"

And because Rocket fans feel it's okay to just rinse, repeat, and rewind their tired, bullshit "McHale sucks" justifications, I'm gonna do the same with the opposite.

If Harden is such a great player, a top-tier superstar franchise player...he'd sack the f[COLOR="black"]u[/COLOR]ck up, quit bitching and trying to do everything his own way with zero exceptions, and work on his game like any other great player.

Stars shouldn't have to be ripped apart by the coach to give 100% effort on the court. Stars don't need defensive advice/teaching handed to them on a silver platter to improve. Stars don't need every single fu[COLOR="black"]c[/COLOR]king whistle just to have an efficient game. Stars don't need to be benched to learn how to not be self-obsessed, arrogant losers on the court. Really, if we're just gonna hand out the "superstar" label to players, they better be ready to take the responsibility that comes with it and makes things happen on their own.

I've said this before...but Allen Iverson's poor attitude and extreme desire to do everything he wanted his own way was notorious...but he still showed up when it mattered, put in every ounce of effort and heart he had into every game. And this is coming from a borderline 6 foot tall, 160-170 pound guy trying to navigate through trees and mountains in the paint just to get a fu[COLOR="Black"]c[/COLOR]king layup. He's been beaten and thrown down night after night after night...he's probably had more nagging injuries in one week than Harden has ever had, and yet AI gets back up every single time and does it all again.

We need to stop with this "Harden needs an elite coach to fix his attitude" garbage. How many players in NBA history have produced at an elite level, even in the playoffs, despite bad attitudes and bad habits? A fu[COLOR="Black"]c[/COLOR]king lot. A lot.

All it takes is HEART. And Harden clearly doesn't have much of it.

RIP Houston fans, Milbuck just deer'd you all

[Smook A.]

RIP Houston fans, Milbuck just deer'd you all

Not all Houston fans blame Harden's defense on McHale, including me

[ballup]

When people make videos of your defense, it's bad.

The Kings must not have had a good defensive player in a long time eh?

[MVBallin2K]

While I detest Harden as a player for the way he plays, at least before I could see that he is basically the Rockets offense. I kind of thought that with every play revolving on him, he didn't really have the energy to spend playing defense. So really, the offense needed to change and they needed to do it just so they can have some success in the playoffs.

I was wrong. If Harden isn't trying when he has a lot of playmakers and isn't the focal point of offense, then he's just a poor defender who doesn't try as hard as he can. I watched him literally stare at an ball that could have been a rebound for him had he made an effort to grab it. Instead, he stands there and lets the other team get an offense rebound.

[Mr Exlax]

He's 25. Yeah, he's still young. But at this age most if not all of the great players were focusing on refining their games..not completely altering it.

You know what other great shooting guards have done by 25?

MJ - Over 3 seasons averaged 35/6/6/3/1 and took them to the conference finals with a pretty weak roster aside from 2nd year Pippen.

Kobe - season of 30/7/6/2/1 on 56% TS with elite defense, coming after winning 3 straight championships.

Wade - lead a team to a championship putting up 35/8/4/3/1 on 57% TS

Now...

Harden - Shat the bed in 3 straight playoff series at age 22, 23, 24...and now at 25, I'm predicting another one this upcoming season.

Nearly all the greats were great players by 25. You're either a great player or you're not. But just to speak about defense..

You don't just magically become a great defender. It's gonna take work from HIM. Work that starts and ends with HIS desire. No coach can transform a player's game entirely. They can only help, but ultimately, if the player is hell bent on doing things their way...that's where it ends.


And not even gonna get into the Bucks thing. Keep letting me know how ****ing badly I pi[COLOR="Black"]s[/COLOR]s you off though

How dumb are you to compare him to all time greats. Your expectations were clearly too high.

He played defense in okc. He was held accountable there. Scott Brooks made sure they played defense. The culture there is tough and gritty like him. No such thing here. Everybody gets to do whatever they want because of our head coach. I don't expect him to become a great defender. Again, your expectations. I've been a fan of his since his college days though. He's a good player and will always be just that.

Cmon son. I laugh at you daily. You're a clown. Why would I get pissed off cause Harden slacks on defense and you hate it? I hate it too. I blame him, but he obviously doesn't want to do it. To combat that, you have to get a coach that will bench him from time to time to make him play it. It makes sense if you've ever played for a coach in anything.

[Milbuck]

How dumb are you to compare him to all time greats. Your expectations were clearly too high.

He played defense in okc. He was held accountable there. Scott Brooks made sure they played defense. The culture there is tough and gritty like him. No such thing here. Everybody gets to do whatever they want because of our head coach. I don't expect him to become a great defender. Again, your expectations. I've been a fan of his since his college days though. He's a good player and will always be just that.

Cmon son. I laugh at you daily. You're a clown. Why would I get pissed off cause Harden slacks on defense and you hate it? I hate it too. I blame him, but he obviously doesn't want to do it. To combat that, you have to get a coach that will bench him from time to time to make him play it. It makes sense if you've ever played for a coach in anything.

So is he not a great player? Is he just another run of the mill all-star like Joe Johnson?

Wade was a top 5 player consistently and a top 3 player at his best. Are you saying there's no possible way Harden ever reaches top 5 status?

If the answer is yes, that he has no chance at it, I've been right this entire time about Harden. If your answer is no, and that he could do it, you're basically admitting that based on his potential he deserves to be scrutinized to the highest level.

Which one is it?

And just LOL at the OKC part...of course he played defense there, he had two of the most dynamic offensive players ever on his team taking most of the pressure off. He had no excuse to not play defense...now he thinks he does. It has nothing to do with coaching, especially when it's Scott ****ing Brooks. It's all about roles. He's capable of being a good defender when all the pressure's off of him..but when the responsibility's on him offensively, he can't handle the other side. He's just a limited basketball player, and people are just now catching on to that.

[josh99]

Yes his defense is terrible but everyone gets beaten off the dribble at some point, where was the help defense? He was playing it smart and making sure he didn't pick up a foul.

[Smook A.]

I agree with Milbuck about the point where he said Harden lacks having a heart and saying Rockets fans (Not all of us do it) put blame on the coach, Kevin McHale, whenever Harden makes a bad pass, plays bad defense, doesn't show enough leadership, misses shot after shot, etc, etc. As a Rockets fan myself, I don't put all the blame on McHale when Harden does these things. McHale does, however, deserve some of the blame (A very small percentage). I think the only thing he needs to do is get in Harden's face... that's all im saying. If I was the coach then I'd be pissed if Harden didn't give a crap about playing defense. My problem with Kevin McHale is that he always looks calm and gives players pats on the back. I like that about him, BUT those are really the only traits he has as the coach of the team. I wanna see a much more meaner McHale.

Now with Harden... If I was a close person to him, I'd tell him to work his ass off on the defensive side of the court. I'm not lying when I say this... but when I saw James Harden slacking off on defense last season and the season before that, I sometimes yelled at the TV and said some of the craziest things like "I wish his mother didn't give birth to him" and other kinds of really stupid, mean things that honestly shouldn't be said on ISH. I'm a fan of the team, not the player so of course im going to criticize some of our players if they don't do something right.

The thing with James Harden about the whole defense thing really confuses me. He has the ability to be a good defender if he tried (God, I would just love it if he gave some sort of effort). He's a big guy for his postition (6'5 and 220 lbs), has a good wingspan, and believe it or not but he's actually pretty quick. His absolute biggest problem is that he has horrible awareness. It's completely and utterly horrendous, and many Rockets fans on ClutchFans will tell you that. I've taken note, and what he does is he looks at the basketball when he's on defense, not the actual man he guards. This is kind of where McHale comes in. I'm sure he knows by now too... what he's gotta do is tell Harden to keep his eye on the man he has to guard, and NOT the ball.

I remember when the Houston Rockets went up with the Los Angeles Clippers in early November during the 2013-14 season. James Harden's guy was JJ Redick. He totally lit up Harden and that's when more people started noticing that he is, in fact, one of the worst on-ball defender in the entire league because a video was released of him guarding Redick. When the game ended, I remember Redick ended up with 26 points. When I was watching the game, I noticed Harden had a hard time catching up to JJ Redick when he was running around for screens to get an open look. It was because of his horrible awareness. The thing about JJ's game is that he loves to get open looks from screens I'm sure Milbuck and Jameer know because he used to play for their team.

And the video OP posted where Harden played bad defense vs Lithuania... I'm not going to say he didn't play bad defense, because he did, but to be at least a little fair he did have 2 fouls and couldn't afford to get another one cause if he did, he'd have to sit down on the bench which is something he definitely didn't want. All in all, I just want him to fix the issues he has on defense. That's to be more aware of the man he's guarding, and to give A LOT more effort. He lacks desire and that's something he really really needs.

[Smook A.]

Harden will never be a good defender.

For starters, he's not that quick. He's crafty, good at body control and can take contact and still make the shot. None of that means jack on the defensive end.

His defensive reflexes are horrible. Someone makes a move to drive to the hoop and he's always a step late.

But it really comes down to desire and work ethic. Harden has neither when it comes to defense. He doesn't care. In his mind, he's already the best player in the game (his own words) and the best player in the game doesn't need to improve.

Like I mentioned in my previous post, he actually is a pretty quick guy. You'll notice that when he's running the fastbreak or runs with the ball all the way up the court.

The last thing you said in your post about him not having the desire is definitely true. He lacks that and if you want to be a good defender you have to have the desire to be one.

[Mr Exlax]

So is he not a great player? Is he just another run of the mill all-star like Joe Johnson?

Wade was a top 5 player consistently and a top 3 player at his best. Are you saying there's no possible way Harden ever reaches top 5 status?

If the answer is yes, that he has no chance at it, I've been right this entire time about Harden. If your answer is no, and that he could do it, you're basically admitting that based on his potential he deserves to be scrutinized to the highest level.

Which one is it?

And just LOL at the OKC part...of course he played defense there, he had two of the most dynamic offensive players ever on his team taking most of the pressure off. He had no excuse to not play defense...now he thinks he does. It has nothing to do with coaching, especially when it's Scott ****ing Brooks. It's all about roles. He's capable of being a good defender when all the pressure's off of him..but when the responsibility's on him offensively, he can't handle the other side. He's just a limited basketball player, and people are just now catching on to that.

He's a better player than Joe Johnson, but yeah. He's like that to me. Can be a focal point for a team and all that. Not every good player in the history of the NBA has been able to be an all time great. If he gets his shit together then that's cool too. He's a really good run of the mill player. He just happens to be the best SG in the NBA at the moment. He's still an exciting player to watch.

Even if I don't think he's gonna be a top 5 SG alltime, he still deserves to be scrutinized for his defensive lapses. I think we won't see eye to eye. You think he can't play defense. I think he can, but just doesn't want to. I stand by my claim that Brooks made it a gritty culture there. That's my opinion and you have yours.

[Smoke117]

Yes his defense is terrible but everyone gets beaten off the dribble at some point, where was the help defense? He was playing it smart and making sure he didn't pick up a foul.

...I watched a game this past season where he got beat off the dribble by Ray Allen TWICE...39 YEAR OLD RAY ALLEN and all he did was just go around him...he didn't even to do any moves, he just drove right by him. Don't make excuses for this fool.