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Old 09-17-2019, 01:49 PM   #31
3ball
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Default Re: Define "First option" for me please.

Who has the most "1st option" rings?.... MJ (6 to 3)

Who has the most rings as the best offensive player?... MJ (6 to 3)

Who has the most FMVP's?... MJ (6 to 3)

Who has the most rings as "the man"?... MJ (6 to 3)


So it's not close no matter what terminology you use .
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Old 09-17-2019, 01:52 PM   #32
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Default Re: Define "First option" for me please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
Who has the most "1st option" rings?.... MJ (6 to 3)

Who has the most rings as the best offensive player?... MJ (6 to 3)

Who has the most FMVP's?... MJ (6 to 3)

Who has the most rings as "the man"?... MJ (6 to 3)


So it's not close no matter what terminology you use .
Why attempt to turn this thread into every other thread on this site?

Who are you even arguing with?

FOH with this trash, 3Ball.
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Old 09-17-2019, 01:57 PM   #33
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Default Re: Define "First option" for me please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loco 50
Why attempt to turn this thread into every other thread on this site?

Who are you even arguing with?

FOH with this trash, 3Ball.
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Old 09-17-2019, 02:06 PM   #34
3ball
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Default Re: Define "First option" for me please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loco 50
Why attempt to turn this thread into every other thread on this site?

Who are you even arguing with?

FOH with this trash, 3Ball.
Why do you think Kblaze made this thread?

He's triggered because people have been saying that MJ is goat over Kareem because he has the most 1st option rings, or rings as "the man" (his team's best offensive player)

rings as "the man" define the modern player's career (i.e. Kobe winning without Shaq), and no one won more as "the man" then MJ, which is why he's goat (6 rings as "the man".. 2nd place has 3)
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Old 09-17-2019, 02:11 PM   #35
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Default Re: Define "First option" for me please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
Why do you think Kblaze made this thread?

He's triggered because people have been saying that MJ is goat over Kareem because he has the most 1st option rings, or rings as "the man" (his team's best offensive player)

rings as "the man" define the modern player's career (i.e. Kobe winning without Shaq), and no one won more as "the man" then MJ, which is why he's goat (6 rings as "the man".. 2nd place has 3)

Blaze is a Bulls fan.
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Old 09-17-2019, 02:39 PM   #36
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Default Re: Define "First option" for me please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
Why do you think Kblaze made this thread?

He's triggered because people have been saying that MJ is goat over Kareem because he has the most 1st option rings, or rings as "the man" (his team's best offensive player)

rings as "the man" define the modern player's career (i.e. Kobe winning without Shaq), and no one won more as "the man" then MJ, which is why he's goat (6 rings as "the man".. 2nd place has 3)

Today I learned that Bill Russell wasn't the man on the Celtics...

Your troll game on this account has fallen off so hard. The only thing you have going for you now is your obsessive relentlessness.
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Old 09-17-2019, 02:46 PM   #37
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Default Re: Define "First option" for me please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogon

Today I learned that Bill Russell wasn't the man on the Celtics...

Your troll game on this account has fallen off so hard. The only thing you have going for you now is your obsessive relentlessness.

In the last 40 years (since the 3-point line began in 1980), how many league MVP's weren't dominant offensive players?

Zero - all 40 MVP's since 1980 were dominant offensive players - so we know Bill Russell could never win a league MVP in the modern era.

And there's no way a zero-MVP player is a goat candidate, or even a top 10 candidate.. Russell is simply a product of an era that didn't have a 3-point line, and therefore lacked the spacing for good team offense - this allowed a 1-way defender like Russell to dominate and be MVP-caliber...

But the modern era requires a dominant offensive player - winning as "the man" (a team's best offensive player) has become the holy grail of basketball accomplishment that defined the careers of guys like Kobe (winning without Shaq), Dirk, Durant and others.. So MJ is goat for winning the most as "the man" (6 rings as "the man", while 2nd place has 3)
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Old 09-17-2019, 03:51 PM   #38
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Default Re: Define "First option" for me please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overdrive
Blaze is a Bulls fan.

This guy is probably the only person here that needs no Internet forum hyperbole to say he’s out of his mind. I made this topic because somebody thinks Michael Jordan is better than Kareem? What kind of ****ing sense does that make? What would the definition of being a first option even have to do with Michael Jordan or Kareem?

A normal human being couldnt possibly reach these conclusions.

I assumed when he was talking about Jordan versus somebody with three of whatever he was saying up there he was talking about Jordan versus LeBron. Where did Kareem even come from? Not that LeBron has to come from anywhere for him to try to drag him into a discussion but at least that would’ve been in character.

Michael Jordan versus Kareem? That’s my hidden agenda?

This guy is 100% uncut insanity.

Is he having some extensive Michael Jordan versus Kareem discussion in some other topic and under the impression that I’m reading this discussion and sitting here seething about it? Is that discussion going on somewhere right now and I missed it because I read almost none of his posts in full because so many are obviously copied and pasted?
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Old 09-17-2019, 03:58 PM   #39
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Default Re: Define "First option" for me please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
This guy is probably the only person here that needs no Internet forum hyperbole to say heís out of his mind. I made this topic because somebody thinks Michael Jordan is better than Kareem? What kind of ****ing sense does that make? What would the definition of being a first option even have to do with Michael Jordan or Kareem?

A normal human being couldnt possibly reach these conclusions.

I assumed when he was talking about Jordan versus somebody with three of whatever he was saying up there he was talking about Jordan versus LeBron. Where did Kareem even come from? Not that LeBron has to come from anywhere for him to try to drag him into a discussion but at least that wouldíve been in character.

Michael Jordan versus Kareem? Thatís my hidden agenda?

This guy is 100% uncut insanity.

Is he having some extensive Michael Jordan versus Kareem discussion in some other topic and under the impression that Iím reading this discussion and sitting here seething about it? Is that discussion going on somewhere right now and I missed it because I read almost none of his posts in full because so many are obviously copied and pasted?
I actually figured you were trying to protect Russell, since he has zero 1st option rings as his teams best offensive player...

This didn't matter in the 60's, but in the last 40 years (since the 3-point line began in 1980), all 40 MVP's were dominant offensive players - so we know Bill Russell could never win a league MVP in the modern era.

And there's no way a zero-MVP player is a goat candidate, or even a top 10 candidate.. Russell is simply a product of an era that didn't have a 3-point line, and therefore lacked the spacing for good team offense - this allowed a 1-way defender like Russell to dominate and be MVP-caliber...

But the modern era requires a dominant offensive player - winning as "the man" (a team's best offensive player) has become the holy grail of basketball accomplishment that defined the careers of guys like Kobe (winning without Shaq), Dirk, Durant and others.. So MJ is goat for winning the most as "the man" (6 rings as "the man", while 2nd place has 3)
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Old 09-17-2019, 04:12 PM   #40
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Default Re: Define "First option" for me please.

I have no idea, but Al Jefferson used to be a First Option. Let that sink in.
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Old 09-17-2019, 08:03 PM   #41
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Default Re: Define "First option" for me please.

the biggest offensive threat on the team... the offensive engine.

for damn near every championship team its been pretty clear cut.
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Old 09-17-2019, 08:13 PM   #42
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Default Re: Define "First option" for me please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogon
Today I learned that Bill Russell wasn't the man on the Celtics...

Your troll game on this account has fallen off so hard. The only thing you have going for you now is your obsessive relentlessness.



first option and the best player are two totally different things. first option is refering to offense.

KG was not the first option on the C's but he was the best player. Ben Wallace was not the first option on detroit (or even the 3rd) but he was the best player...

but that is rare. Most championship first options were the best players on their teams.
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Old 09-17-2019, 08:41 PM   #43
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Default Re: Define "First option" for me please.

Kevin Garnett led the 2008 Celtics in shots in the regular season. He led them in scoring in three of the four rounds of playoffs and led them in shot attempts in the one round he didn’t. He led the team in fourth-quarter scoring in the playoffs as well. He did not win finals MVP and it has somewhat skewed perception. Pierce won finals MVP because of a 38 point game that they lost. Paul had moments to remember but didn’t play his usual level for much of those playoffs. Ray Allen probably played the better finals and Garnett was definitely the best player for them in the playoffs...but neither did much to remember in tv specials. Pierce had some dramatic moments and that game seven showdown with LeBron.
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Old 09-17-2019, 08:51 PM   #44
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Default Re: Define "First option" for me please.

if KG was the first option it was barely... pierce was the leading scorer in the regular season and like half a point under garnett in the playoffs. need a bucket time it was paul's turn. Of course garnetts defensive impact blew everybodys away.
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Old 09-17-2019, 09:15 PM   #45
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Default Re: Define "First option" for me please.

I can understand how you would think that(they wouldn’t give the ball to kg to go create big baskets) but it’s another thing people just remember incorrectly.

https://youtu.be/B0LWM-vkq3Q


And it was like that often. They would straight ISO Kg for the needed basket. Vs the pistons they had Pierce take the ball out and find KG to get fouled. Step to the line and made two free throws with three seconds left to go from a two point lead to a four point lead. Pierce wasn’t even an option. He was throwing it in...to KG to go seal it. I have to assume Ray Allen was the first choice but Pierce certainly couldn’t be taking the ball out of bounds 94 feet from the basket. Kg took plenty of big shots with the big 3. He hit a game winner vs the hawks in the playoffs. He made big shots to hold off the pistons. Those teams did not just defer to Pierce. Id say ray Allen had more plays run for him off the top of my head.

A lot of it just gets lost in time and we fall back on perception.

Pierce was the best wind it down take the pull-up scorer. Ray was the best clutch shooter arguably in the NBA back then. He had a pretty insane clutch three highlight video at the time. Kg made huge shots one on one and spotting up.

That big three shared responsibility more than any has since.
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