Is Jordan the most obvious GOAT in all of the major sports?

[Hey Yo]

That guy isn't from India

Not surprised you don't know geography

So they're called Indians...... not Indonesians?

[sd3035]

So they're called Indians...... not Indonesians?

Indonesia is a completely different country

You really need to take a look at a map

[Psileas]

I was gonna bring up Bradman but someone beat me to it. not a sport I concern myself with but worldwide...its more major than American football by a lot. That guy is so much beyond anyone else its hard to conceive. Even without knowing the sports....the numbers alone? The difference between him and everyone else? If you put the ratio by which he leads everyone else in batting in basketball terms...its like a career scoring average of 45 or so ppg. His test(whatever the **** that is) average is 99.94....#2? 61. Hes 99.

#2 all time?

61.

Hes so far ahead of everyone else its literally beyond all discussion.

Also...Michael Schumacher. When you really look into it he was absurd. Another sport I dont care about....but still. Ive read articles from people suggesting they weigh his car down just to make it fair.

Also...Alexander Karelin. Olympic wrestler. He went 887-2 for his career...and was screwed out of one of the losses. He gave up one point...in life. Outside the 2000 olympics...he never gave up a point in his career.

I also wanted to mention Bradman, but I'm not aware of cricket records, let alone teams and championships.

For people who also consider popular board games as sports, I also want to add another name: Dr. Marion Tinsley, draughts (checkers) legend:
-Could see even 60+ moves ahead.
-Won multiple world championships in a row, then retired due to boredom, literally (even his best opponents were afraid of trying to win against him, thus always played conservatively, trying to draw), then came back and dominated even more, at age 60+.
-Had an ELO of 2800+, while nobody else could get to 2700.
-Lost 7 games in his 45 year pro career, only 5 to humans. Never lost a major tournament.
-A powerful computer (for the era) was developed just in order to beat him in a series of games. It lost the series. They made it even more powerful, it played a new series of games. It drew, before Tinsley retiring due to serious health problems. The latest version of the computer was able to solve the whole game of checkers. So, a slightly better player than Tinsley would only be someone who could literally analyze all the billions upon billions of positions of the game.

[SamuraiSWISH]

In team sports? MJ. Because of dominance individually on both sides of the ball. Plus team success. Closest otherwise is Gretzky. But he was just an offensive power house.

[ArbitraryWater]

Fwiw,

Messi has 8 leagues, 4 ucls and and 4 cups and 28 trophies overall while
CR who's 3 year older has 4 leagues (1 since he moved to Spain and went head to head against messi), 3 ucls (the first featured him being the only man United player to miss a penalty and would have cost them the ucl but for terry slipping and the latter two he was the worst player on the pitch as voted by marca readers - madrids own fans.

Sergio ramos and Gareth bale were there to save him both times.
This is no different from.the way Shaw won the 3 titles for the Lakers and Kobe stands wanting to use them to make an argument for him as a top 5 player.

Anyone who actually understands football would laugh

counting all these baby trophies for Messi... a CL in which he didn't play the final or a single knockout game besides the R16 first leg? Come on....

two leagues where he was barely a starter yet?

And fck Ronaldo's low league count.... makes me mad

[ArbitraryWater]

No he won't. Dude gets bodied in national competition on a regular basis, sometimes with humiliating Ls. Both he & Messi taking Ls on the national stage.

.....




































wins EURO's

[K Xerxes]

In terms of truly global sports and household names, Jordan is the closest thing to a consensus there is. His closest competitor would be Ali, but in boxing circles Ali isn't widely considered the best boxer of all time. That would be Sugar Ray. In terms of ability and cultural impact in their sport, Jordan has both. federer would be in this discussion if he wasn't Nadal's personal boy toy in H2H. Bolt may be in this discussion given some time too.

Gretzky shouldn't even be considered because very few outside of North America has heard of him. There are many region-specific sports with unanimous GOATs, e.g. Lin Dan of badminton, Jan-Ove Waldner of table tennis, but of course Americans are too pompous to recognise there exists a sporting world outside of their gravity.

[f0und]

when someone is so good at something, far beyond any of their peers, they are said to be "The Michael Jordan" of so and so. they dont say that for no reason.

[DaHeezy]

In terms of truly global sports and household names, Jordan is the closest thing to a consensus there is. His closest competitor would be Ali, but in boxing circles Ali isn't widely considered the best boxer of all time. That would be Sugar Ray. In terms of ability and cultural impact in their sport, Jordan has both. federer would be in this discussion if he wasn't Nadal's personal boy toy in H2H. Bolt may be in this discussion given some time too.

Gretzky shouldn't even be considered because very few outside of North America has heard of him. There are many region-specific sports with unanimous GOATs, e.g. Lin Dan of badminton, Jan-Ove Waldner of table tennis, but of course Americans are too pompous to recognise there exists a sporting world outside of their gravity.

The question is who is the most dominant in their sport, not who's the most globally recognized

Dumb answer

[Akrazotile]

It's obviously very close among a handful of guys, but I think ultimately Lebron has that little bit of extra separation that gives him the edge to be considered the GOAT of the GOATs.


Excellent question tho, OP, and definitely a worthwhile discussion to have.

[ArbitraryWater]

In terms of truly global sports and household names, Jordan is the closest thing to a consensus there is. His closest competitor would be Ali, but in boxing circles Ali isn't widely considered the best boxer of all time. That would be Sugar Ray. In terms of ability and cultural impact in their sport, Jordan has both. federer would be in this discussion if he wasn't Nadal's personal boy toy in H2H. Bolt may be in this discussion given some time too.

Gretzky shouldn't even be considered because very few outside of North America has heard of him. There are many region-specific sports with unanimous GOATs, e.g. Lin Dan of badminton, Jan-Ove Waldner of table tennis, but of course Americans are too pompous to recognise there exists a sporting world outside of their gravity.

Have you read my thread on Waldner?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=383443

The first paragraph is a bit shady.. I just heart he had some personality syndrome something like that.

[swagga]

it's got to be that swimmer dude, so many medals.

[Dro]

Gretzky is the answer.

Unless you include boxing in which case Robinson is the clear cut goat

This is false. You have people who think Ali or even Mayweather are the greatest...

[Dro]

Russell has a better case than MJ for GOAT.

lol, how?

[Mayday Malone]

Secretariat is the right answer.

Jordan wasn't even the best player on the court for his first nine years. He had to wait until the Bird/Isaiah/Magic trio got old for everyone to say, "Hey, Jordan learned how to pass the ball! Now he's winning!" Except he hadn't, the true competition just did what it had to do for him to win; it got old.