LeBron James - top 5 player in NBA history, Kobe/Hakeem outside top 10

[2010splash]

hakeem took a mediocre team to the finals while lebron needed an all star team and ray allen to bail his ass out. All of a sudden he's top 4?
if ray allen had missed that 3, lebron would be barely top 20 right now. You should print ray's picture a4 size and paste it in your bathroom to pray to everyday.

Wade averaged 16/5/5 and Bosh 12/7 for the playoffs. All-stars in name of course, but they hardly played like all-stars throughout the playoffs. Hakeem never had a dominant playoff run like 2012 LeBron (30+ PER) and he was a much worse regular season player (1 MVP to LeBron's 4 MVPs). Similar to Kobe, 1 MVP shows you weren't dominant enough to warrant top 5 mention.

Comparing Hakeem to LeBron at this point is simply retarded. Anyone who thinks LeBron is outside the top 5 at this point is just using wack logic.

[2010splash]

I think at this point you have to start making a top 10 of each era. Because LeBron isn't as good as some players that only won a championship or two and there are players from and teams from the '90s that didn't win that would beat this Miami team ('93 Suns, '97 and '98 Jazz, '96 Sonics, '95 Magic).

LeBron is better than anyone to play this game with the exception of Jordan.

The 2013 Heat would slaughter those sh-t 90s teams like the Suns, Sonics, Jazz and Magic. Quit living in the past.

[ripthekik]

Wade averaged 16/5/5 and Bosh 12/7 for the playoffs. All-stars in name of course, but they hardly played like all-stars throughout the playoffs. Hakeem never had a dominant playoff run like 2012 LeBron (30+ PER) and he was a much worse regular season player (1 MVP to LeBron's 4 MVPs).

Comparing Hakeem to LeBron at this point is simply retarded. Anyone who thinks LeBron is outside the top 5 at this point is just using wack logic.

All stars are all stars. The 2013 Miami Heat had 3 of the East's starting all stars. Think about that. Look at wade's stats in the last couple of games. It's something only top SG's can produce.

Hakeem took a much worse team and won the same amount of championship that lebron needed an all star team for. Think about that again.

Rings 2 - 2
FMVP 2 - 2

Difference? Lebron had a stacked team, Hakeem took a mediocre team all onto his shoulders.

[jzek]

Hakeem was never in the top 10 to begin with. I think this is the NEW most popular top 10 rankings:

Jordan
Russell
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Wilt
Duncan
Shaq
Kobe
LeBron

[Mr Exlax]

hakeem took a mediocre team to the finals while lebron needed an all star team and ray allen to bail his ass out. All of a sudden he's top 4?
if ray allen had missed that 3, lebron would be barely top 20 right now. You should print ray's picture a4 size and paste it in your bathroom to pray to everyday.

^^^^^^ This is why I say you're mad Rip.

Hakeem is the only player that I can think of that won with a mediocre team. Kobe didn't do it. Jordan didn't do it. Lebron didn't do it. Kareem didn't do it. Shaq didn't do it. Wade didn't do it. Russell didin't do it. Wilt didn't do it.

[FKAri]

In terms of pure dominance, he's the second greatest player ever

How is he more dominant than Shaq or Wilt?

[alexd]

[QUOTE=2010splash]Without question LeBron now moves into the top 4-5 all time by winning his 4th MVP and 2nd straight Finals MVP. In terms of pure dominance, he's the second greatest player ever, but people seem to place heavy emphasis on team-based accomplishments, so even though they were worse players, maybe you'd rank guys like Kareem and Russell over LeBron. LeBron is also probably the second most clutch player ever as proven by his stats in elimination games and in Game 7s (just destroys so called clutch legends like Bird and Kobe). At this point I can say with a straight face that Jordan is the only player clearly ahead of LeBron.

LeBron now has literally the same r

[ripthekik]

^^^^^^ This is why I say you're mad Rip.

Hakeem is the only player that I can think of that won with a mediocre team. Kobe didn't do it. Jordan didn't do it. Lebron didn't do it. Kareem didn't do it. Shaq didn't do it. Wade didn't do it. Russell didin't do it. Wilt didn't do it.

Right. So you're agreeing with me then.
We have a level head, we're not in the moment like these lebron fans.
Good job not being washed over, although I know you're a big fan of lebron too.

[rhythmic]

Wade averaged 16/5/5 and Bosh 12/7 for the playoffs. All-stars in name of course, but they hardly played like all-stars throughout the playoffs. Hakeem never had a dominant playoff run like 2012 LeBron (30+ PER) and he was a much worse regular season player (1 MVP to LeBron's 4 MVPs). Similar to Kobe, 1 MVP shows you weren't dominant enough to warrant top 5 mention.

Comparing Hakeem to LeBron at this point is simply retarded. Anyone who thinks LeBron is outside the top 5 at this point is just using wack logic.

You lost all credibility with that remark.

[rhythmic]

1) Jordan (100/100 dominance, 95/100 fundamentals, 100/100 achievements, 100/100winning, 80/100 longevity)
2) Kareem (90/100 dominance, 95/100 fundamentals, 100/100 achievements, 100/100 winning, 98/100 longevity)
3) Russell (75/100, 100/100 fundamentals, 100/100 achievements, 100/100 winning, 80/100 longevity)
4) Magic (95/100 dominance, 100/100 fundamentals, 90/100 achievements, 95/100 winning, 60/100 longevity)
5) Wilt (100/100 dominance, 90/100 achievements, 80/100 fundamentals, 70/100 winning, 80/100 longevity)
6) Bird (90/100 dominance, 90/100 achievements, 95/100 fundamentals, 90/100 winning, 60/100 longevity)
7) Kobe (95/100 dominance, 70/100 fundamentals, 100/100 achievements, 95/100 winning, 100/100 longevity)
8) Duncan (90/100 dominance, 100/100fundamentals, 95/100 achievements, 100/100 winning, 80/100 longevity)
9) Shaquille (100/100 dominance, 75/100 fundamentals, 90/100 achievements, 90/100 winning, 75/100 longevity)
10) LeBron (95/100 dominance, 100/100 fundamentals, 90/100 achievements (so far), 70/100 winning (so far), TBD for longevity)

[Mr Exlax]

Right. So you're agreeing with me then.
We have a level head, we're not in the moment like these lebron fans.
Good job not being washed over, although I know you're a big fan of lebron too.

I'm not agreeing with you. The rest of the Heat didn't play up to their potential this season. It's clear as day. They had their moments of course, but we all know Wade and Bosh can play better than they did. I'll say they're stacked, but I'm smart enough to know they didn't perform like a stacked team.

I said he was a top 10 player in terms of skill level and impact on games before he won his first championship. When people say these top 10 lists, are they talking skill or are they talking career accomplishments? Again though, I'm not hung up on players. I love the game. For somebody to say Kobe is better than Lebron because he has 5 rings is stupid as hell to me. That's how fans evaluate players. That's not how coaches and students of the game evaluate players. Have you played organized basketball before Rip?

[ripthekik]

I'm not agreeing with you. The rest of the Heat didn't play up to their potential this season. It's clear as day. They had their moments of course, but we all know Wade and Bosh can play better than they did. I'll say they're stacked, but I'm smart enough to know they didn't perform like a stacked team.

I said he was a top 10 player in terms of skill level and impact on games before he won his first championship. When people say these top 10 lists, are they talking skill or are they talking career accomplishments? Again though, I'm not hung up on players. I love the game. For somebody to say Kobe is better than Lebron because he has 5 rings is stupid as hell to me. That's how fans evaluate players. That's not how coaches and students of the game evaluate players. Have you played organized basketball before Rip?

I definitely have. Started 2 years in varsity, and played intramural pretty often in college. What does that have to do with anything?

I disagree with the potential part. They don't always have to produce their superstar numbers. That doesn't make sense. If you put team USA together, everyone's stats suffers. That doesn't mean they are playing at a less level.
What's important is their potential. Such as how Wade always coming up in big moments and played like a top 2 SG. Bosh stepping up in game 6 to snatch the rebounds and block big shots. Ray stepping up to make those threes.

That's the reason for having a stacked team. Every gets to do less than they did before, but they just have to provide in spurts and it helps the team.

[r15mohd]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[rhythmic]

your top 5 is good, but Kobe that high and even greater than Shaq?

1-Jordan
2-Kareem
3-Russel
4-Magic
5-Wilt
6-Bird/Shaq
6-Shaq/Bird
8-Duncan
9-Hakeem
10-Lebron

after last night...it's as solid as concrete that James is top 10

Kobe won more, achieved more accolodes, and has far greater longevity then Shaquille. Kobe isn't top 10 and LeBron is?

Jesus this board is infected with idiots & haters.

[r15mohd]

[QUOTE=rhythmic