How many MVPs should Kobe have won in his career?

[Droid101]

Talking about best player, and not strictly MVP, Kobe was the clear cut best player for 3 seasons. '06, '07 and '08.

Please, please stop quoting and responding to known trolls.

I know you're just trying to inject some knowledge and intelligence into a thread, but come on. They are not posting in earnest. They are posting in an attempt to get a rise out of fans of a particular player.

Don't indulge them.

[iamgine]

2006 was kind of an odd year. Iverson averaged 33 PPG and getting way more assists than Kobe with similar efficiency. The same Iverson who have been declining before the rule change.

[KOBE143]

Since 2006, Kobe deserved all the MVP every season.. So at least 6 MVP..

[Electric Slide]

Talking about best player, and not strictly MVP, Kobe was the clear cut best player for 3 seasons. '06, '07 and '08.

Wade was arguably better in 06.
Duncan was arguably better in 07
Lebron/KG/CP3 were arguably better in 08

Kobe was never the clear cut best player in his career, like MJ and Lebron were but I think it has more to do with competition than his dominance though.

[hawkfan]

At least 1 more.

[joeyjoejoe]

In 08 where he got mvp here's a comparison of kobe and cp3

Cp 21.1, 4, 11.6, 2.7

Kobe 28.3, 6.3, 5.4, 1.8

Stats seem fairly even but just the fact that cp was much more efficient with shooting and turnovers plus he lead the league in assists and steals that year and that's not even getting into things like win shares or per Paul probably deserved mvp

[RoundMoundOfReb]

one.

[Fresh Kid]

one.

still salty about them 81 points I see

[SamuraiSWISH]

He was the best player in the league, in my opinion in 2006, 2007, and 2008. Unfortunately he didn't have a team that won enough due to a lack of talent, so he wasn't allowed to win a deserving award IMO in 2006 and 2007.

2008 is probably the most deserving award, and probably given context the only one you can really give to him fairly. And unfortunately for Kobe, even that season there was questions. Kobe, CP3, and LeBron all had cases. This was Kobe's last season as the best player in the league. Context gave a case for CP3 but Kobe was still the better player. LeBron was starting to truly challenge that year, quietly though. But a deserving MVP. Especially given the way he carried the Lakers even before the Pau Gasol deal. People often forget about that ...

So 2008 is the only one we can really give him fairly. Sad but true. Sometimes context just doesn't make it work for players. See Shaq. See LeBron being the best player in 2011, but context didn't really allow him to win it.

Kobe was the best player in 2006 and 2007 but just didn't have the record to deserve it in the regular season. By 2009 and 2010 he was still in the conversation, past his prime though, but by then I think it was very safe to say LeBron had leap frogged him as the best player in the league. In 2009 LeBron firmly kind of grabbed a hold of that title.

[TonyMontana]

45 wins exceeded expectations for the 2006 Lakers, and Kobe's play that year was simply beyond everyone else. 35 ppg for a whole season is ridiculous. Phil asked Kobe to carry the offense and he did so at a level beyond what anyone could have hoped for. Teams knew he was going out there looking to drop 40-50 and they still couldn't stop him.

Once Odom finally played consistent ball in the second half of the season, the Lakers finished 19-11, a 52 win pace. Meanwhile, Kobe was still playing off the charts with averages of 36/5/5 on 46/36/87 shooting during that second half.

Meanwhile, Nash's 54 wins were still on the low end for an MVP, and despite Amare's injury, he had a much better team around him than Kobe.

The only MVP with the traditional amount of wins would be Dirk that year. Personally, I give it to Kobe, but if someone wants to give it to Dirk for his 27/9/3 season with 60 wins, I'm fine with that.

Fine

But what does this have to do with no MVP Being as low as a 7th seed in the past 30 years? I know Kareem won it one year as a .500 team(the 70s?). Whats the lowest seed a players ever won MVP as? I don't even think a 4th seed has ever won MVP in the modern era, and we're going to invite a 7th seed to the conversation?

1.I don't see how he meant more to his team. And don't give me that nonsense about Kobe having some incredible team and Paul having garbage. Paul had David West, Tyson Chandler and Peja, and overall, a good defensive team that could shoot 3s as well as the same basic supporting cast for the entire season.

When Kobe had Pau, they were nearly unbeatable at 22-4, and earlier, Kobe overachieved as one of the better WC with a 20 year old Bynum. Even without either, the Lakers remained respectable.

You can make a case for either. But more importantly, since win shares were mentioned, I have to take this opportunity to laugh at win shares.

Why are you laughing at win shares? I'm not saying win shares should be the only thing looked at, but it is easily the single most relevant statistic regarding the impact of a player. I'm not telling you to look at that alone, but 9/10 times the win share statistic supports the truth.

Kobe quit on his team before that year. That was the offeseason he was crying to the media about his teammates, demanding trades.

The reason 2008 was any different is because it was the beginning of LAs dominating frontcourt and twin towers. Even before Pau arrived to the team, Andrew Bynum was playing better than some all-stars. Never underestimate the impact of a 7 footer that plays at a high level on both ends of the court. Pau was important because Bynum is a guy that can never last an entire year, and sure enough he got hurt.

In the 2007-2008 season, the Lakers were 46-15(.754) with either a frontline of Bynum-Odom or Gasol-Odom. Without at least two elite bigs playing LA was only 11-10(.524) aka a similar percentage as to how they finished the previous seasons. The twin towers is why LA took off.

IF you watched any NOH game that year, I shouldn't need to waste time convincing you how important Paul was to the team. He was responsible for EVERYTHING offensively. Not one guy could create their own shot on that team, not even David West who was pretty much a pick and pop shooter like Bosh is on the current Heat. He played much different compared to his Indiana counterpart.

KG had an MVP-caliber season without question. Unfortunately, he didn't get much consideration after he missed that stretch and Boston went 9-2 or something, and all of the blowouts lowered his numbers. While those things really don't take away from his impact, the voters probably would have given him more credit had he not missed that stretch and had he not rested so much in blowouts. In reality, playing a few extra meaningless minutes in games that he didn't have to would have no impact, but say 20-21 ppg, 10-11 rpg and 4 apg looks better on paper than 19/9/3.

Talking about best player, and not strictly MVP, Kobe was the clear cut best player for 3 seasons. '06, '07 and '08.

KG taught the Celtics how to play defense. He changed the culture of the team. You honestly think you can throw around that 9-2 record and assume they'd be on that pace for the entire season?

KG is the reason guys like James Posey, PJ Brown, and Eddie House all signed with the team for dirt cheap. People knew the Celtics were going to be special once Garnett signed there. Had it been just Pierce-Ray Allen, the Celtics are merely a 4/5 seed that MAYBE wins a series and thats that.

KG also averaged .265 WS per 48 minutes which was the second highest average during that season behind Chris Pauls .284.

Kobe was at .208.
Pau Gasol was at .239 for comparisons sake.

[Doranku]

elite bigs

Bynum-Odom

[BBallZen83]

This thread has what exactly to do with Lebron?

Any thread dealing with kobe implicitly has to do with Lebron and vice versa. You have been on ISH long enough to know that.

[Odinn]

1.
He deserved his 2008 MVP.


His 2006 situtation is a little bit different than 2008.
- He was the best player in the league but he wasn't on a 50+ W team. When was the last time a player on a team with less than 50 W? I believe Moses Malone in 1982 was the last. He didn't have the things which an MVP should have.
- Stats wise; it was related to the rule changes.
Kobe 35.4 / 5.3 / 4.5 with 46W
LeBron 31.4 / 7.0 / 6.6 with 50W
Iverson 33.0 / 3.2 / 7.4 with 38W
Noone talks about LeBron shot at winning the MVP award? Or noone talks about Iverson's similar numbers.

Like I said, Kobe was the best player in 2005-06 season. But the MVP award related to team success, too. Nash's 'w/o Amar'e all along and still 54 wins' argument fits to it better than Kobe's 'all by himself'.

[Odinn]

Wade was arguably better in 06.
Duncan was arguably better in 07
Lebron/KG/CP3 were arguably better in 08

Kobe was never the clear cut best player in his career, like MJ and Lebron were but I think it has more to do with competition than his dominance though.

Kobe was clearly the best player in the game in 2005-06 season.

Also LeBron doesn't have any competition. Is he competing with prime Magic, prime Barkley, prime Hakeem or just we do not know? He doesn't deserve to be called alongside MJ like this. Put any player in the top 10 at their prime in this era instead of LeBron and they're the best player without a doubt.

[thabisyo]

Kobe was clearly the best player in the game in 2005-06 season.

Also LeBron doesn't have any competition. Is he competing with prime Magic, prime Barkley, prime Hakeem or just we do not know? He doesn't deserve to be called alongside MJ like this. Put any player in the top 10 at their prime in this era instead of LeBron and they're the best player without a doubt.

I agree about lebron to an extent but to flat our say Kobe was the best in 2005-06? i disagree, his stats like lebrons in Cleveland were inflated due to being the only one. Kobe was never the best player in the league. Much like Lebron nowadays, he is overrated by ESPN but ESPN overate Lebron by constant MJ comparisons, Kobe was one of the top players in the league no doubt