School me on Magic and Bird from 79-80 through 82-83

[Thorpesaurous]

There's a lot of good stuff in here. I grew up in that era going to a lot of those Celtic games.

I wish I had time to say more, but the truth is most of everything has been covered.

I will say something I always point out when the notion that "these guys played on unbelievably stacked teams" thing starts coming out.

That is true, but the ability to play and be great on those stacked teams is absolutely a skill. And it's a skill we've lost in the sport as a whole, and specifically in this country, shortly after those guys retired, and the league expanded and thinned out. And in addition to it being a skill, those two guys are probably the most talented guys of all time in that particular skill.

[SHAQisGOAT]

There's a lot of good stuff in here. I grew up in that era going to a lot of those Celtic games.

I wish I had time to say more, but the truth is most of everything has been covered.

I will say something I always point out when the notion that "these guys played on unbelievably stacked teams" thing starts coming out.

That is true, but the ability to play and be great on those stacked teams is absolutely a skill. And it's a skill we've lost in the sport as a whole, and specifically in this country, shortly after those guys retired, and the league expanded and thinned out. And in addition to it being a skill, those two guys are probably the most talented guys of all time in that particular skill.

Well said... And people, when saying that, also forget that they had to go against each other many times, plus vs teams like the 76ers, Pistons, Bucks, so on... Most stacked league, especially the East.

[Lebronxrings]

a ton of fastbreaks

[Hey Yo]

The end of the 82-83 season, Magic still had no jumpshot or really a set shot. He was a back-to-the-basket player who would pound the rock and work his way closer to the basket. He'd either score in the post or find the slashing teammate for the easy layup. The now "5 second" rule which some refer to it as the "Mark Jackson" rule, should really be referred to as the "Magic Johnson" rule. At the other end of the court, his defensive assignment was usually the worst offensive threat on the floor.

I'd say the only thing Magic had on Bird was running the floor on the fast break and a slight edge in the passing department. Bird was a very good passer.

People say that Magic made his teammates better, but don't know of any examples of a guy who was considered just an avg. player for another team but then came to LAL and became an above avg. / borderline All-Star.

[La Frescobaldi]

Then [COLOR="Red"]why did Bird win rookie of the year vote 63 to 3[/COLOR]. I read a SI article that year that said if Bird had gone to LA and Magic to Boston LA might not have lost more than 10 games.

It's a valid question, isn't it.

So far all I've heard is

[La Frescobaldi]

The rosters for the 78/79 Celtics were different though as compared to the 79/80 division winners. Among the players who remained like Maxwell and Cowens, they were 19/10 and 16/10 guys respectively the previous years.

The 1979/80 Celtics had 8 double figure scorers on their team with Gerald Henderson being the 9th best ppg guy at 6.5ppg. I'm not saying Bird walked into as great a situation as Magic, but it was a pretty good lineup.

Of course in later years, the Celtics would have these incredibly stacked teams historically, culminating with that 1986 team. Bird played with 2 HOFers and top 50 players in the front line with Parish and Mchale. Need I say more?

Just as a footnote. To this day, Erving has played with just one HOFer in his 76er days in Malone, who is also a top 50 player. Before Moses, when doc had to contend with the loaded Lakers and front line heavy Celtics, Doc played with no HOFers.

And to think people hold this against Doc that he needed Moses to win a title.

He wasn't better than Johnson in the early 80s, and Bird was better still. It's just the way it was. Erving in the old days, in the ABA, yeah that Doc had an argument. But not in the '80s.

[gcvbcat]

why as magic picked #1 when bird was so much better?

[fpliii]

why as magic picked #1 when bird was so much better?

Bird was drafted the year before, stayed in college for an extra year. From my understanding (someone can correct me if I'm wrong), the reason he fell to 6th is because there was some concern that wouldn't sign. Auerbach decided to take the risk.

[Pointguard]

Then why did Bird win rookie of the year vote 63 to 3. I read a SI article that year that said if Bird had gone to LA and Magic to Boston LA might not have lost more than 10 games.

With the way things are today, if you win in the post season you are simply the better player. Who had the best year in 2011? Was Dirk even close to Lebron during the regular season? Read the boards here. Dirk is considered better than Barkley and Malone despite not being close to them in the regular season. No way could Bird be considered better than Magic if you follow the same pattern. Especially before '84. I have them very close. Magic came in the league with a winner's way about him and was close to the greatest team player right away {Bird too}. Bird did have learn how to win and gain some consistency in the playoffs. He was up and down from one series to the next for his first 3 years.

[JohnFreeman]

They were very good players

[Shep]

Then why did Bird win rookie of the year vote 63 to 3. I read a SI article that year that said if Bird had gone to LA and Magic to Boston LA might not have lost more than 10 games.

Bird was rookie of the year and deservedly so, however Johnson's performance in the Playoffs was the difference between the two players on an overall scale in 1980.

I don't care for hypotheticals, and never will, I deal with facts.

At 1st

Nixon (prime)
Cooper (1st years)
Wilkes (prime)
Bird (1st years)
Kareem (still prime)

then

Cooper (prime)
Scott
Worthy
Bird (prime)
Kareem (later years, still more than good enough)

(if they wanted to draft a PG instead of James, they could've gotten Fat Lever or something... that's if they still got the pick)

with role players such as McAdoo, Green, Rambis, Thompson...

Imagine that

And not in the East, but playing in the West... Most likely they would've won it in 1980, 1981, 1982, 1984, 1985, 1987, 1988... before Bird blew out his back and whatnot. I wouldn't say 1986 if the C's build up a team similar (at the same level) as the actual 1986 Celtics, but with Magic instead.

For the most part, while they were both healthy, Bird was a better overall player and had a better peak, plus he walked into a considerably worse situation and had to be the main-man/leader out of the gate, with no superstar-talent teammate at 1st, bulding from the ground up... playing in the best conference, probably the GOAT conference, in a better era for SF's.

Hypothetical drivel

[MastaKilla]

Nah man

[Round Mound]

Bird > Magic 1979-1986
Magic > Bird 1987-1992

Magic Was Funner To Watch For The Common NBA Fan
Bird Was Funner To Watch For The More Knowledgeable or Older Fans

[Dr.J4ever]

He wasn't better than Johnson in the early 80s, and Bird was better still. It's just the way it was. Erving in the old days, in the ABA, yeah that Doc had an argument. But not in the '80s.

Good. But see, this is exactly my point in my original post on this thread. I mentioned there the NBA almost had to over hype the Bird/Magic or Laker/Celtic rivalry for it's own survival.

How many fans know, save for knowledgeable posters on this board, that Doc in his prime form during the 70s had an "argument" vs. Bird or Magic? Surely, not most of the younger fans.

Just to add, I am very wary of anything that comes off as NBA marketing stuff from these 2 players because I actually saw both these players win and lose games against Doc and Philly. I know their weaknesses as well their strengths. I still remember the articles,story lines, and tactics used vs. these players. I can recognize when they are being lifted up to be some kind of basketball saints.

Most younger fans know that the NBA started with Bird and Magic due to all those NBA hype videos. I am here on this thread to let others know Erving's own attributes.

Fans should understand that Bird and Magic played behind a great storyline, what with the Laker/Celtic rivalry and Larry and Magic's college rivalry all in one. The NBA jumped on a good thing and used it to the hilt.

This was the beginning of the NBA's good TV deals. NBA fans growing up then like me saw these games, but didn't see Doc in the ABA because of lack of coverage.

Imagine if Doc of the 70s played under the backdrop of today's media age and internet talking heads? Imagine all the chatter and debate about Doc's legendary last ABA Finals when he averaged 37.7PPG vs. the best defensive forward in either league in Bobby Jones? If Doc's last couple of years in a rival league that was close to or equal in many experts estimation to the NBA were played today under the bright lights of today's modern age, would Doc be ranked higher or thought of better against Magic or Bird?

The answer is pretty clear in my mind. Unfortunately for Doc, it's out of sight and out of mind for him when the 70s ended.

The NBA wanted to close the chapter of the 70s since it wasn't a very good decade financially. And so they did.

[Shep]

Bird > Magic 1979-1986
Magic > Bird 1987-1992

Actually Bird > Magic 1981, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988
Magic > Bird 1980, 1982, 1983, 1989, 1990, 1991