2000-2002 Shaq is the equivalent of 1991-1993 MJ

[ArbitraryWater]

Same impact, different positions. Thats literally the type of player Kobe played with. But less about Kobe.

Imagine if you pair Shaq/MJ with the helping impact they were/gave, hence they play with each other...

I think that should settle any "Kobe > Shaq" questions, if you give Shaq MJ (Kobe got Shaq, same help/impact), they probably win 6 straight.

[keep-itreal]

and 2000-2002 Shaq = 1991-1993 Jordan = 2014-2015 Curry

[ArbitraryWater]

and 2000-2002 Shaq = 1991-1993 Jordan = 2014-2015 Curry

Curry is minimum one tier above. Dude's not real.

[SouBeachTalents]

That's why I when people act like it's blasphemous to rank someone like Hakeem over Kobe. They each won 2 titles as the man, but could you imagine if you gave him the perimeter equivalent of Shaq with peak Jordan? How many titles you think they win?

[GIF REACTION]

And throw Lebron 2012-2014 in there too

[ShaqTwizzle]

I think that should settle any "Kobe > Shaq" questions, if you give Shaq MJ (Kobe got Shaq, same help/impact), they probably win 6 straight.

Only a fool would make that comparison to begin with.

00-04 Shaq >>> 06-10 Kobe (everyone agrees that Peak Shaq >>> Peak Kobe)
05-06 Shaq >> 11-12 Kobe (this is rather obvious also).
Now that we have that out of the way...

00-05 Kobe VS 95-99 Shaq [COLOR="DarkRed"](Pre-Peak Shaq VS Pre-Peak Kobe)[/COLOR]
(playoff stats) (5 year samples for both)

Shaq : 27 / 11 / 3.4 on 58%TS --- (38-mpg)
+2.0 -bpg ||| [COLOR="DarkRed"][***28.1 PER***][/COLOR]
---------
---------
Kobe : 26 / 5.4 / 5.1 on 52%TS --- (43-mpg)
+1.5 -spg ||| [COLOR="DarkRed"][***21.4 PER***][/COLOR]

Don't compare Kobe to Jordan, Kareem or Shaq... not now, not ever.

That's why I when people act like it's blasphemous to rank someone like Hakeem over Kobe. They each won 2 titles as the man, but could you imagine if you gave him the perimeter equivalent of Shaq with peak Jordan? How many titles you think they win?

Agreed.
Yeah Hakeem only won 2 titles as "the man" but that is the same as Kobe.

Give young Hakeem the support of a player like Peak Shaq (or a comparable guard like 91-93 Jordan) for multiple years and you don't think he could potentially win 2/3 titles at a minimum?

Prime Hakeem has better playoff scoring stats then Kobe while also being 25x the defensive force.
Hakeem even has comparable and or better longevity.
There is absolutely nothing unreasonable about ranking him above Bryant All-Time.

[Magic 32]

And throw Lebron 2012-2014 in there too

[ArbitraryWater]

And throw Lebron 2012-2014 in there too

yup, 2009-2014 Bron on that level for sure.

That's why I when people act like it's blasphemous to rank someone like Hakeem over Kobe. They each won 2 titles as the man, but could you imagine if you gave him the perimeter equivalent of Shaq with peak Jordan? How many titles you think they win?

exactly

Hakeem and Jordan 6 peat, too

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I always said that Shaq's peak = MDE

Jordan's 1991-93 peak was only slightly better, and that's because he was never a liability down the stretch (freethrows).

Some people take Kobe because of the resume, and the fact his prime coincided with most of the 2000s. For me, the fact Shaq had a greater prime, peak, and was better in the playoffs and finals basically seals the deal.

[Magic 32]

All these players had great teams at the exact right moment in their careers.

For some it developed organically (Jordan, Shaq) for some it was a calculated and colluding move (Lebron).



That's why I love Kareem, Hakeem and Kobe.

Found a way to be all time greats despite being denied a great team during their peak.

[HighFlyer23]

I'll give Shaq the nod because of his ability to protect the basket

[Gileraracer]

Who won more rings without the other, Kobe or Shaq?

[SouBeachTalents]

Who won more rings without the other, Kobe or Shaq?

Havlicek > Russell too then right

[dhsilv]

Hmm

Shaq VORP

9.3 6.8 5.5

MJ VORP

9.8 8.3 8.9

Shaq winshare

18.6 14.9 13.2


MJ Winshare

20.3 17.7 17.2

You might have a case if you hold your argument on exclusively the playoffs, but during the season, you gotta actually play in the games. You can't impact a game you don't play in.

[90sgoat]

Shaq played 8 seasons during the 90s where he could have won a ship. He could not beat Hakeem with a team of role players and he got owned repeatedly and swept by the Greg Ostertag Utah Jazz.

You simply can not claim Shaq to be MDE when he 2 years before his so called prime got owned by a team which center rotation was Antoine Carr, Greg Ostertag and Adam Keefe.

Shaq won once Hakeem, Malone, Ewing, Robinson et al got old and even then his only challenger was Duncan and they took the championship from right under his nose.

Shaq was not leaps and bounds better than the rest of the centers in the 90s, he simply was not, look at the head to head stats.

Shaq looked so dominant because there was not a single center left in the league to guard him.