David Robinson or Tim Duncan

[ShaqAttack3234]

Hell, if you're really asking, I don't even remember Avery calling out David. And it must have not really been that bad since Avery played a part in David's retirement ceremony as well as David playing a part in Avery's retirement ceremony.

I don't think Avery disliked Robinson, but he saw what many fans saw, and that is that Robinson wasn't comfortable being the leader on a team. I could see him winning a title as the best player in a role like Garnett's on the 2008 Celtics where he didn't have to be the undisputed number 1 option offensively, but I just don't think he had it in him to carry the load in the playoffs like Duncan did in '03.

Is it solely because Gasol is better post player that they're picking Bosh over Gasol? I think people are picking Gasol over Bosh because of the all around package, including passing, rebounding, and shot blocking. As scorers, I don't think many are saying one is that much better than the other

.

Well, that also helps prove my point, the fact that you say they're about equal as scorers despite Bosh consistently scoring more.

I could go find it, but don't really have the time. Either way, the way that Hakeem played in that series, I don't think it would've matter if a prime Bill Russell was guarding him. He would've gotten his, regardless.

Maybe, but to that degree? Robinson just didn't look like he was fighting in that series.

He won the MVP that year and statistically, it was his best year of his career. It wouldn't have been a stretch of the Spurs were to beat the Lakers that series.

Ehhh, Robinson barely played in that series(and yes I do acknowledge Robinson as a very valuable role player in his later years) and the Shaq/Kobe duo would have been hard to beat considering Duncan had a rookie Tony Parker as his second option that series and he didn't even have the SG combo of Ginobili or a productive Stephen Jackson that he had the following year. That Spurs team really wasn't that good, they were in transition and I've always been impressed that Duncan made them as good as they were.

Tim Duncan is a nice guy. As far as I've watched him play, he seems nice and classy. He's certainly not on Jordan or Shaq's level of ego. You're picking out a trait that David and Tim BOTH share.

I never said that being a nice guy means you can't be a leader. What I said in response to your statement about how David was an outstanding and honorable individual, I said that really means very little as far as leading a team in the playoffs.

The difference was, Duncan's game rose in the playoffs while Robinson's dropped and Duncan had that killer instinct. Remember his 37/16 close out game vs the Lakers or his 21/20/10/8 close out game vs the Nets? I mean after losing game 1 of the '03 WCF(with a 40/15/7 game BTW) and losing homecourt advantage, he responded with a 32/15/5/3 game, a 34/24/6/6 game and a 21/20/7/4 game to not only get HCA back, but put Dallas in a 3-1 hole.

[thesnowman22]

There is no comparison here. From a natural talent standpoint, Robinson was great. But NOONE in their right mind who knows ANYTHING about the NBA should put Robinson above Duncan. Not even CLOSE. His lack of flair punishes him all the time, but Duncan is one of the greatest ever.

[SinJackal]

During the time Duncan actually played in the league, PF was by far the most stacked competition compared to center.

You apparently didn't read what you were quoting when you replied. The list for GOAT centers is much more stacked competition than PF. Does that mean every GOAT PF plays right now? No. What were you even thinking when you posted that?

No he wasn't. Duncan had the better career because he was the better player. Robinson was better at driving to the basket, running the floor and he was a more prolific regular season scorer.

Duncan was the better post player, more clutch, a better leader and a better defensive anchor. Being a leader and being clutch are intangibles and they factor into who the better player is. That's why Duncan was better at carrying a team.

Duncan was not a better leader, nor was he a better defensive anchor. Robinson is easily one of the best defensive players ever. The Spurs' team defense in the Duncan era was superior to the Robinson era.

Avery Johnson even said he didn't think Robinson was a good leader in the mid 90's. Robinson's production consistently dropped in the playoffs, Duncan was the opposite. Robinson looked passive in the playoffs.



Post scoring is important, it's the same reason why nobody would take the current Chris Bosh over Tim Duncan circa 2007 offensively.

Robinson was much more athletic than Duncan and as a result, he could do a lot of things that Duncan couldn't do. However, he didn't use his talent nearly as well as Duncan. I didn't see Robinson regularly just taking complete control of playoff games like Duncan did.

I certainly wouldn't call Robinson a better rebounder or passer either. Maybe equal, and Robinson could be called a better shot blocker, but I'll take Duncan to anchor a defense. He was consistent, blocked shots without leaving his feet, played tough post defense ect.

I can't imagine Duncan getting lit up for 35 ppg on 56% shooting like Robinson did in the '95 WCF.

And that isn't the only disastrous performance Robinson had in the playoffs. He averaged only 20/10 on 41% shooting vs Utah in a first round exit in '94, a series he had homecourt advantage in and in '96? Same thing except in the second round, he averaged just 19/9 on 48% shooting. Name series that bad from prime Tim Duncan.

Hell, in '98 when Robinson was still an elite player and a 20/10 guy, he shot under 40% vs Utah in the semi-finals.

Robinson seemed like a good guy and a classy guy, but that doesn't equate to how well you can lead a team. Vince Carter also seems like a nice guy, but who would you say is a better leader, Carter or Jordan? I think we all know the answer despite the fact that most people would agree that Carter seems like a much nicer and classier guy.

Nearly everything you said in that post was wrong, assuming, or laughable.


Avery Johnson has never said David Robinson was a bad leader. Show us a video of this nonsense, or you're straight up lying. Avery's only said good things about him.

Did you seriously just compare CHRIS BOSH to DAVID ROBINSON? With such an insulting comparison, you're clearly showing your colors as a Robinson hater. That's like comparing Shaq to Shawn Bradley. Don't do it.

Also, Duncan would not have defended '95 Dream any better. He was unstoppable that year. He was nearly unstoppable the year before as well, when he carried his team of roleplayers to the finals, and won.

You cited two bad scoring series for Robinson, but both were against the same Jazz team. i.e., Karl Malone, Ostertag, etc. He didn't play that well against that team, so? Tim Duncan gets absolutely smashed by Amar'e year after year. He's been smashed more times than Robinson has, and by inferior players. Duncan can't stop Carlos Boozer either, and does not play well against, surprise, the same team, the Jazz, even during his last playoff run.

So spare me your bs about how Robinson played only above average against the Jazz, and only above his career standards on offense while not being able to properly stop all of Hakeem's low post moves at an acceptable enough level. Duncan has had just as many, if not even more shady playoff experiences, as I have already pointed out.


Also, in perhaps an even more insulting comparison than the Chris Bosh one, you even claim Vince Carter is a classier guy than David Robinson. This proves to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that you don't know shit about DRob besides basketball reference stats.

David Robinson is arguably the classiest guy in the history of the NBA. He even has an award named after him because of it.

Give everyone here a break with your ignorant Robinson bashing. You've been replying to everyone's posts bashing Robinson day after day. Wtf is your problem with him exactly?

[rmt]

This man begs to differ.

I believe that the Spurs' strategy back then was cover the 3 point line, hound Nash and let Amare have his. Pretty successful plan. They weren't going to risk Duncan getting in foul trouble trying to guard Amare as Duncan still got his on the other side of the court. That's why they eventually got Shaq to try to guard Duncan.

[necya]

how can you rate TD over Robinson defensively???

i agree with wang4three.

but how many games have you seen of the spurs between 90-95? he just has led his team each year with good records, without a great support, like a true leader.

and what about the answer in game 3 and 4 of the WCF in 95? everyone saw the rockets finishing the job and the spurs did respond. unfortunately, Hakeem was unstoppable in this series.

Duncan is the reason i still watch nba during the 00's but don't say he is a better player than the Admiral. he has titles because of the different era, don't forget that.

[Dave_520]

I find it a bit of an oxymoron to say Robinson was a better player but Duncan had a better career. What I think is safer to say is Robinson had a higher ceiling and more natural athleticism but Duncan fulfilled his potential and proved to be a better basketball player, especially during the playoffs.

Whether Robinson could have won a title with a different team we will never know. It doesnt mean Rob wasnt a leader, it just means he wasnt good enough and his team wasnt good enough at the time. He proved to be, much like Garnett, a perfect fit for the second option on an elite team. Nothing in the world wrong with that.

[magnax1]

Prime vs. Prime? They're pretty much equal. In the regular season Robinson was on another level, though his played dropped off a bit and Duncans picked up a bit so that in the playoffs they were pretty much equal on offense and Robinson was probably still a bit better on defender. Though for his whole career, I'd take Duncan pretty easily. He had a much longer prime then Robinson and more productive years.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Duncan was not a better leader, nor was he a better defensive anchor. Robinson is easily one of the best defensive players ever. The Spurs' team defense in the Duncan era was superior to the Robinson era.

You're a fucking moron. Look at '94-'96, Robinson's 3 year peak. He was knocked out of the playoffs each year and was well below his standard in each of those series.

Nearly everything you said in that post was wrong, assuming, or laughable.

Nope, a laughable statement would be disputing that Duncan was a superior leader.

Avery Johnson has never said David Robinson was a bad leader. Show us a video of this nonsense, or you're straight up lying. Avery's only said good things about him.

I'm not lying asshole, others have mentioned the quote as well, I believe it was in '95 or '96.

Did you seriously just compare CHRIS BOSH to DAVID ROBINSON? With such an insulting comparison, you're clearly showing your colors as a Robinson hater. That's like comparing Shaq to Shawn Bradley. Don't do it.

Can you fucking read?!

I'm not trying to compare either to Robinson

Also, Duncan would not have defended '95 Dream any better. He was unstoppable that year. He was nearly unstoppable the year before as well, when he carried his team of roleplayers to the finals, and won.

Then why is that every team in the playoffs defended Olajuwon better than Robinson did? Shaq did a much better job guarding Olajuwon and he wasn't considered as good defensively as Robinson or Duncan for that matter.

You cited two bad scoring series for Robinson, but both were against the same Jazz team. i.e., Karl Malone, Ostertag, etc. He didn't play that well against that team, so? Tim Duncan gets absolutely smashed by Amar'e year after year. He's been smashed more times than Robinson has, and by inferior players. Duncan can't stop Carlos Boozer either, and does not play well against, surprise, the same team, the Jazz, even during his last playoff run.

Duncan won that series vs Boozer, if we're talking about series they won as negatives. Here's an embarrassing one from Robinson's prime.

1995 1st round- 19 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 3.3 apg, 1.3 bpg, 42.9 FG%

Yet I didn't bring that up before because the Spurs won the series. And was Duncan embarrassed on both ends like this?

Hakeem Olajuwon- 35.3 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 5 apg, 4.2 to, 4.1 bpg, 1.3 spg, 56 FG%
David Robinson- 23.8 ppg, 11.3 rpg, 2.7 apg, 4.5 to, 2.2 bpg, 1.5 spg, 44.7 FG%

Look at their regular season numbers, they were almost identical. Yet in the playoffs, Robinson's points dropped by 4 ppg, his shooting % plummeted, he was outrebounded, his assists dropped, his turnovers went way up.....

So spare me your bs about how Robinson played only above average against the Jazz, and only above his career standards on offense while not being able to properly stop all of Hakeem's low post moves at an acceptable enough level. Duncan has had just as many, if not even more shady playoff experiences, as I have already pointed out.

Did Duncan lose in the 1st round in his prime? Much less twice? And Robinson hasn't had the high points that Duncan has had in the playoffs. Did Robinson even make it to the finals as the franchise player? Much less win 4?

Also, in perhaps an even more insulting comparison than the Chris Bosh one, you even claim Vince Carter is a classier guy than David Robinson. This proves to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that you don't know shit about DRob besides basketball reference stats.

This proves to me that you lack basic reading comprehension. When did I say Carter was classier? Never, I said, like Robinson, he seems like a nice and classy guy, but that doesn't mean he's a good leader.

Give everyone here a break with your ignorant Robinson bashing. You've been replying to everyone's posts bashing Robinson day after day. Wtf is your problem with him exactly?

I have no problems with Robinson personally, however I do have problems with asinine statements such as "Robinson was as good of a leader as Duncan".

You got any more crap for me to disprove, I'll be happy to do it, it's not difficult.

[KingBeasley08]

My first post in this forum, both are/were great players but I think that Duncan was a better team player. He raised his game during the post season many times (almost had that quadruple double). However, Robinson was a beast when he played.

[Rake2204]

I intentionally bypassed all the inevitable back and forth going on (I know, it's a message board, that's what you're supposed to do) but just off of who I preferred to watch play the most: David Robinson. He's my favorite player of all-time. He's actually one of my favorite people of all-time. My dad was my #1 role model but somehow, David was right behind. What a great guy he seems to be.

I also like Tim, but nothing like David.

[Semi]

duncan all day

[necya]

Duncan won that series vs Boozer, if we're talking about series they won as negatives. Here's an embarrassing one from Robinson's prime.

1995 1st round- 19 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 3.3 apg, 1.3 bpg, 42.9 FG%

Yet I didn't bring that up before because the Spurs won the series. And was Duncan embarrassed on both ends like this?

Hakeem Olajuwon- 35.3 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 5 apg, 4.2 to, 4.1 bpg, 1.3 spg, 56 FG%
David Robinson- 23.8 ppg, 11.3 rpg, 2.7 apg, 4.5 to, 2.2 bpg, 1.5 spg, 44.7 FG%

Look at their regular season numbers, they were almost identical. Yet in the playoffs, Robinson's points dropped by 4 ppg, his shooting % plummeted, he was outrebounded, his assists dropped, his turnovers went way up.....

you are just unfair.
first round series against the nuggets. he played against Mutombo and all centers in this period used to struggle a bit when they played the Mont.

Do you think Ewing escape of this statement? of course not, any of robinson, olajuwon, o'neal or ewing average more than 22pts againt mutombo. and ewing struggled the most.

and what did ewing do against cartwright in ECR1 in 91 ?? why you don't talk out this series? Ewing : 17pts 10rbd 40%FG

it happens to the greatest to struggle, olajuwon in 90, 91.

and stop comparing playoffs performances of 90's and 00's. put robinson in the 00's with parker ginobili horry and bowen and they will grab the same amount of championships.

put duncan with the spurs of the 90's and the spurs would have the same number of rings : 0

i'm consterned by your bad faith, and i'm obliged to recal the bad times of those players.
they, ewing-rob-td, all were great players but every great players of the 90's didn't have the chance to play in the weak 00's. that's all.

[JtotheIzzo]

Are you seriously asking this question? Duncan is the reason Robinson has rings.

why was this thread not ended after this post...f*cking kids:smh:

[ShaqAttack3234]

you are just unfair.
first round series against the nuggets. he played against Mutombo and all centers in this period used to struggle a bit when they played the Mont.

Do you think Ewing escape of this statement? of course not, any of robinson, olajuwon, o'neal or ewing average more than 22pts againt mutombo. and ewing struggled the most.

Shaq averaged 33/16/5/3 on 57% shooting vs Mutombo and a very good defensive team in the 2001 finals.

and what did ewing do against cartwright in ECR1 in 91 ?? why you don't talk out this series? Ewing : 17pts 10rbd 40%FG

it happens to the greatest to struggle, olajuwon in 90, 91.

Isn't this a Robinson vs Duncan thread?

and stop comparing playoffs performances of 90's and 00's. put robinson in the 00's with parker ginobili horry and bowen and they will grab the same amount of championships.

put duncan with the spurs of the 90's and the spurs would have the same number of rings : 0

How the hell do you know that? The fact is, Duncan proved himself as a champion as the franchise player, Robinson did not. Duncan's production rose in the playoffs, Robinson's dropped. Duncan's 2003 cast was not better than Robinson's 1995 or 1996 casts.

i'm consterned by your bad faith, and i'm obliged to recal the bad times of those players.
they, ewing-rob-td, all were great players but every great players of the 90's didn't have the chance to play in the weak 00's. that's all.

[Anaximandro1]

David Robinson was the better player, Duncan had the better career.

Tim had the better career because he was the better player.

Playoffs

Duncan 170 Games 23.0 pts (50.2%),12.4 rb,3.5 ast,2.6 blk

Robinson 123 Games 18.1 pts (47.9%),10.6 rb,2.3 ast,2.5 blk

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...duncati01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...robinda01.html


Tim Duncan destroying the Suns in his first NBA playoffs game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_fD0QA5g1E