Tracy McGrady, the choking loser

[Owl]

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It actually is, you tell me that I'm cherry picking stats yet you are doing the very same. lol.


The guy was straight up outplayed in the clutch by Baron Davis in that series, a player that was clearly inferior to McGrady at the time and was inferior to McGrady for most of his career. If McGrady did perform well in the clutch then they actually would have gotten past the 1st round but he didn't so he didn't get past the 1st round. It is one thing to not perform well in the clutch and it is another to get outperformed by another player on the opposing team.

You want to know why LeBron gets ripped into pieces about his 2011 NBA Finals performance? Because he was outplayed by every single player out there in the 4th quarter/clutch. Now I'm not suppose to penalize Mcgrady for the same thing? You have to be ****ing kidding me.


The only thing remarkable about Mcgrady is how he managed to lose in every situation possible.

Lose with a good team
Lose with an average team
Lose with a bad team.
Lose with HCA
Lose without HCA
Lose by getting outperformed by another player on the other team in the clutch
Lose by blowing series leads.

How long do you want me to continue? I don't where I would rank McGrady of all-time but it is far far far far away from the top 50 and he has nothing on Paul Pierce.

I didn't cherry pick I used PER in all instances and directed people to the full stats. I once mentioned assists per game to illustrate that in one series where you said he wasn't effective due to his shooting to illustrate that he did other things.
With regarded to bolded I would say that (1) I never claimed McGrady was clutch only that he was a very good player in the playoffs and (2) as I said before if you want to rate individuals by team performance fine T-Mac was useless.

I don't want you to have double standards so fine if you watched the games and McGrady was bad like James was fine. I don't happen to think 4th quarter performance is more important than the rest of the game. All 4 quarters count the same and McGrady was darned effective across the lot of them. If you think the order in which wins and losses are accumulated are important in a series are important and conceding a seires lead makes you a choker fine. I don't care about the order and as I have repeated I don't think team performance is a good indicator of the performance of one player.
"He" (actually his teams, or teams which he was on) lost with home court advantage. Once. That was the one time his team were the (very marginal) favourites. It was his worst performance. He was still his teams best player (not accounting for D) http://www.basketball-reference.com/...fs_advanced::5 . Yao was the better player by this point but he fell off much worse. But he was slightly below par this series so if that makes him a choker he is one.

He lost with bad teams for sure. He lost in a couple of competitive series when past his peak in Houston. This for me isn't as important because it's after his peak. But even then he bothered by nagging injuries, Yao was bothered by injuries (out in 2008), and those were 2 man teams.

I'd probably rank him below The Truth depending on the criteria because Pierce was generally a better defender and has had a much longer peak. That said Pierce was getting killed by Bill Simmons for dogging it in the middle of the last decade so it's not like he's a saint or anything, and neither could carry a team on their own.

[StateOfMind12]

Thought this point was interesting. You consider below 55% TS% bad...yet call a player with a 53 TS% the best scorer. Sounds smart.

I consider Kevin Durant the best scorer in the NBA right now. Tell me what is his TS% is this season because I'm pretty sure it is not below 55% dumbshit. I don't know why you can keep posting in my threads, have I seriously inside your head so bad that you have to annoy me in all of my posts and threads? That is pretty pathetic, oh well, jokes on you, then again you are a joke so you should already be use to it.

"He" (actually his teams, or teams which he was on) lost with home court advantage. Once. That was the one time his team were the (very marginal) favourites.

He had HCA in 2008 as well and honestly he could have easily gotten past the 1st round with that team if he didn't perform so poorly. Most all-star wing players would have gotten past the 1st round if they were to replace McGrady on the 2008 Rockets in my opinion.

It was his worst performance. He was still his teams best player (not accounting for D) Yao was the better player by this point but he fell off much worse. But he was slightly below par this series so if that makes him a choker he is one.

I don't get what you meant by this but yes McGrady playing horribly in the series was a large part of why they loss this series.

McGrady talked about how it was on him if he doesn't get past the 1st round this series. McGrady was also in tears in the Game 7 post-conference. That is ****ing pathetic, I mean get crying due to being happy and finally winning (e.g. Michael Jordan, Antoine Walker, etc.) but crying due to losing? I have one word for that and that is "pathetic."

I don't want you to have double standards so fine if you watched the games and McGrady was bad like James was fine. I don't happen to think 4th quarter performance is more important than the rest of the game. All 4 quarters count the same and McGrady was darned effective across the lot of them. If you think the order in which wins and losses are accumulated are important in a series are important and conceding a seires lead makes you a choker fine. I don't care about the order and as I have repeated I don't think team performance is a good indicator of the performance of one player.
"He" (actually his teams, or teams which he was on) lost with home court advantage.

That is your opinion, absolutely your opinion. I don't agree at all and I think we view Sports differently. Clutch absolutely matters, absolutely. I can explain more in detail if you want or need.

He lost with bad teams for sure. He lost in a couple of competitive series when past his peak in Houston. This for me isn't as important because it's after his peak. But even then he bothered by nagging injuries, Yao was bothered by injuries (out in 2008), and those were 2 man teams.

Like I said, if McGrady were to somehow get a career ending injury in 2004 before playing and getting traded to Houston or retired or whatever then many people including maybe myself would justify how he never got past the 1st round. IT would be pretty similar to Grant Hill before playing with Phoenix.

However, after seeing Tmac fail some more with Houston says it all about him.

I'd probably rank him below The Truth depending on the criteria because Pierce was generally a better defender and has had a much longer peak. That said Pierce was getting killed by Bill Simmons for dogging it in the middle of the last decade so it's not like he's a saint or anything, and neither could carry a team on their own.

There is no debate about who is better between Pierce and McGrady unless you put 100% value on peak and nothing else.

If that were the case then you better have Bill Walton in your top 5-10 since he was probably better than Duncan was in his peak. I have heard many times that Bill Walton was the GOAT during his peak as well, yet Walton is considered like barely top 30-40. That would be a complete double standard if you were to have Tmac above Pierce and then Bill Walton outside of your top 20.

I'm not sure what you have left or what your original point is. McGrady isn't really a loser but not a good playoff performer or what?

[Dave3]

I consider Kevin Durant the best scorer in the NBA right now.

Oh, today is Durant? Just 2 days ago it was Kobe...

The most superior scorer in the league needs to score the most amount of points so lets do it Kobe.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...=251748&page=4 - post 49....

Gotta make up your mind.

[CLTHornets4eva]

Oh, today is Durant? Just 2 days ago it was Kobe...



http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...=251748&page=4 - post 49....

Gotta make up your mind.

Great find.

[StateOfMind12]

Oh, today is Durant? Just 2 days ago it was Kobe...



http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...=251748&page=4 - post 49....

Gotta make up your mind.

With you stalking me so frequently, I thought you would also know that I am usually not very serious in game threads especially in Lakers ones.

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=251976

Who is the best scorer in the NBA?
Kevin Durant

Good try though, maybe next time. Funny how most people picked Kobe in that thread though. I wish I could agree but I couldn't. Of course I'm sure you are raging since people consider someone superior than LeBron.

[Dave3]

With you stalking me so frequently, I thought you would also know that I am usually not very serious in game threads especially in Lakers ones.

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=251976




Good try though, maybe next time.

Oh I see. You flip flop opinions, then use the classic "I'm wasn't serious!!!"

Good escape. Well...mediocre at best but it's what's come to be expected from you anyways.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

I'd say he choked twice, against Detroit and Dallas. The other playoff series, his team was either bad (Orlando) or injured (Houston). I think it was 2007, when during the playoffs no one other than McGrady and Yao could sniff double digit scoring. McGrady has dragged some bad teams to the playoffs, he deserves credit for that.

And I see very little people overrate him these days anyway. He's rarely mentioned on all time lists and most people (like the OP) call him a choking loser/first round virgin. Don't really see how he's overrated.

[StateOfMind12]

Oh I see. You flip flop opinions, then use the classic "I'm wasn't serious!!!"

Good escape. Well...mediocre at best but it's what's come to be expected from you anyways.

Yeah, good try though. I still feel sorry for you especially the part where you think people take you seriously, but hey this thread is talking about Tracy McGrady and how much of a loser he is. I know you are a loser as well but we are talking professional NBA players who are loser and had losers career, not losers in the real world because not even Tracy is not that bad.

See ya in another thread.

And I see very little people overrate him these days anyway. He's rarely mentioned on all time lists and most people (like the OP) call him a choking loser/first round virgin. Don't really see how he's overrated.

It's a different site that does overrate him but yeah you are right for the most part since this site seems to treat him more fair and rate him more correctly. I think he choked in the 2007 series though because they were up 3-2 in that series heading into Game 6. The Rockets could have buried them there in that Game 6 and in Game 7 but they didn't. McGrady also played pretty poorly since he couldn't even score at least score efficiently against Derek ****ing Fisher.

Just curious, Are you a Rockets fan or a Tmac fan? Your name is Rockets Tmac so I'm not too sure, lol.

[HurricaneKid]

Derrick Rose shot <50% TS% in last year's playoffs. The year before that? You guessed it, <50%.

Is Derrick Rose a "truly awful and inefficient chucker" ?

Still waiting...

DRose career playoff TS% .504

TMac- .517

[spiegel]

For real. People like to nag on LeBron for being a choker or a loser but LeBron isn't even close to being a loser like Tmac is. If you want to take look at a loser, you take a look at Tmac. LeBron looks like Bill Russell when compared to Tmac.

Tmac did nothing but underachieve in his career. While LeBron has also underachieved for part of his career, it certainly wasn't as much or as bad as Tmac's under achievements were. LeBron has also massively overachieved for most of his career and that is something we cannot say about and for Tmac.

RG you just cant let ur tmac hate tpo propup yao die. caN U

[spiegel]

It's a different site that does overrate him but yeah you are right for the most part since this site seems to treat him more fair and rate him more correctly. I think he choked in the 2007 series though because they were up 3-2 in that series heading into Game 6. The Rockets could have buried them there in that Game 6 and in Game 7 but they didn't. McGrady also played pretty poorly since he couldn't even score at least score efficiently against Derek ****ing Fisher.

Just curious, Are you a Rockets fan or a Tmac fan? Your name is Rockets Tmac so I'm not too sure, lol.

Whaa hipocreate. you sed to be a rockets fan when yao was there but now are a lakers fan. lool. you are the dfinition of a bandwagoner. lolo.

[ImmortalNemesis]

I left that McGrady thread alone, come back and see RocketGreatness has made yet ANOTHER McGrady hating thread. Seems like you're quite insecure inside. Watch me walk away from this thread. Meanwhile you'll still be here sounding like a child. Various posters have come up with facts and you choose to ignore them.

LOL @ "I wasn't serious". Yeah, you're a clown and you know it. Have a good day sir.

[disel]

Still had a better career then you're crippled god yao.

[ImmortalNemesis]

Whaa hipocreate. you sed to be a rockets fan when yao was there but now are a lakers fan. lool. you are the dfinition of a bandwagoner. lolo.

Yeah. And he ha the audacity to call me out for not being a 'real' Rockets fan. He is a Yao Ming only fan who likes to hate on TMac. His weird Yao obsession is weird and pathetic at the same time.

[StateOfMind12]

Derrick Rose shot <50% TS% in last year's playoffs. The year before that? You guessed it, <50%.

Is Derrick Rose a "truly awful and inefficient chucker" ?

In last season's post-season run, Derrick Rose played in 3x as many series as Tmac ever did in a post-season run. He didn't play well against the Cavs in 2010, sure, but he also dominated the Celtics in his rookie season and in his first playoff appearance.

I don't know what your point is either. Rose literally had no other weapons on his team last season or two seasons ago. With that being said, do you really think Rose would be shooting that poorly with Yao on his team, heck do you think Rose would be shooting that poorly with Luis Scola on his team? Those players were far better offensive players than anything Rose ever worked with. The only time Rose played with a good offensive player/scorer was Ben Gordon in 2009 and look at how Rose did in that post-season run...

Tmac has no excuses, plain and simple.