Just how weak were the late 90's?

[La Frescobaldi]

Dwight Howard is one of the 40-50 greatest players ever..

you really think so ?

he was sure awesome before that back injury wasn't he? the real deal.

[swagga]

Amare Stoudemire made 1st team All NBA in 06-07 with 20.4/9.6 and awful defense.

Let that sink in for a second.

Amare was a BEAST back then. James harden is getting all nba teams and MVPs these days ... all this trolling in this thread and this shit sticks out like a white college girl at a black party.

[swagga]

you really think so ?

he was sure awesome before that back injury wasn't he? the real deal.

4 sweeps of DPOY and getting to the finals as the clear cut main man while being top 5 in MVP for 5 straight years. If not for peak physical lebron dwight would've realistically gotten 1-2 MVPs ... how can he NOT be top 50?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

I played D1 ball against many NBA players, whereas you've never played.

Prove it.

[3ball]

Prove it.

I've posted pictures of me playing college ball on ish before, but what difference does it make?

You can just say "that isn't you"

[24-Inch_Chrome]

No proof? Cool.

[3ball]

how can he NOT be top 50?

because he isn't a top 10 center all-time:

Walton
Ewing
Mikan
Robinson
M Malone
Olajuwon
Shaq
Russell
Kareem
Wilt

and more

[3ball]

.
[COLOR="Red"]Previous eras had better bigs, and their wings were also superior:[/COLOR]



[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR]2000-2014[COLOR="White"].................[/COLOR]1984-1998

Kobe Bryant.............. Michael Jordan
LeBron James............ Magic Johnson
Kevin Durant............. Larry Bird
Dwayne Wade........... Clyde Drexler
Russell Westbrook..... Gary Payton
Tracey McGrady........ Dominique Wilkins
James Harden........... Grant Hill
Kawhi Leonard.......... Scottie Pippen
Paul Pierce............... Adrian Dantley
Carmelo Anthony....... Alex English
Vince Carter............. James Worthy
Allen Iverson............ Penny Hardaway
Jason Kidd................ Jason Kidd


Honorable Mention 1984-1998: Doctor J, Dennis Rodman, Reggie Lewis, Reggie Miller, Sidney Moncrief, Joe Dumars, Eddie Jones, Mitch Richmond, Alvin Robertson, Detlef Schrempf, Dennis Johnson, Latrell Sprewell, Ronaldo Blackman, Fat Lever, Glen Rice, Chris Mullin, Kiki Vandeweghe, Mark Aguirre, Jamaal Mashburn

Honorable Mention 2000-2014: Ron Artest, Shawn Marion, Andre Igouodala, Ray Allen, Paul George, Manu Ginobili, Brandon Roy, Klay Thompson, Jimmy Butler, Joe Johnson, Rip Hamilton, Gilbert Arenas, Michael Redd, Draymond Green, Peja Stojakovic, Antawn Jamison, Luol Deng, Rashard Lewis
.

[swagga]

because he isn't a top 10 center all-time:

Walton
Ewing
Mikan
Robinson
M Malone
Olajuwon
Shaq
Russell
Kareem
Wilt

and more

son, if you want to troll at least do it properly. Mikan Walton had 1 year and then he was a sad trainwreck. Not to say that not being in the 10 centers logically implies him not being a top 50 player.

Step your game up hoe.

[3ball]

.
[COLOR="Red"]Previous eras had better bigs, and their wings were also superior:[/COLOR]



[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR]2000-2014[COLOR="White"].................[/COLOR]1984-1998

Kobe Bryant.............. Michael Jordan
LeBron James............ Magic Johnson
Kevin Durant............. Larry Bird
Dwayne Wade........... Clyde Drexler
Russell Westbrook..... Gary Payton
Tracey McGrady........ Dominique Wilkins
James Harden........... Grant Hill
Kawhi Leonard.......... Scottie Pippen
Paul Pierce............... Adrian Dantley
Carmelo Anthony....... Alex English
Vince Carter............. James Worthy
Allen Iverson............ Penny Hardaway
Jason Kidd................ Jason Kidd


Honorable Mention 1984-1998: Doctor J, Dennis Rodman, Reggie Lewis, Reggie Miller, Sidney Moncrief, Joe Dumars, Eddie Jones, Mitch Richmond, Alvin Robertson, Detlef Schrempf, Dennis Johnson, Latrell Sprewell, Ronaldo Blackman, Fat Lever, Glen Rice, Chris Mullin, Kiki Vandeweghe, Mark Aguirre, Jamaal Mashburn


Honorable Mention 2000-2014: Ron Artest, Shawn Marion, Andre Igouodala, Ray Allen, Paul George, Manu Ginobili, Brandon Roy, Klay Thompson, Jimmy Butler, Joe Johnson, Rip Hamilton, Gilbert Arenas, Michael Redd, Draymond Green, Peja Stojakovic, Antawn Jamison, Luol Deng, Rashard Lewis

.

[COLOR="DarkRed"]So how could anyone say previous eras were weak when their bigs and wings were superior?

The reality is that TODAY'S era lacks quality compared to previous eras, and today's rules make the game easier for the players than ever before (hand-check ban, defensive 3 seconds).[/COLOR]

[90sgoat]

This agenda thread is hilarious:

League Leaders 1996-97:

Scoring

MJ 29.6
Malone 27.4
Rice 26.8 - 48/47/87 (prime Curry shooting)
Shaq - 26.2
Richmond - 25.9 45/43/87
Spreewell - 24.2
Iverson - 23.5
Hakeem - 23.2
Ewing - 22.4
Ellis - 21.9 (without injured D.Rob)
Gill - 21.8
Payton - 21.8
Miller - 21.6
Grant Hill - 21.4

and on and on.

Assist leaders

Marc Jackson - 11.4
Stockton - 10.5 (scoring 14 ppg on 55/43/86 - a guard shooting 55%)
KJ - 9.3
Kidd - 9
Strickland - 9
Mighty Mouse - 8.8
Hardaway - 8.6
Van Excel - 8.5
Pack - 8.4 (one of best small dunkers ever)
Marbury - 7.8
Iverson - 7.5 (he had to play point guard until rules changed)
Grant Hill - 7.3 (to go with 21.5 ppg and 9 rpg, Lebron wishes he could rebound like that and Hill was shorter and weighed less)

Blocks

Shawn Bradley - 3.4
Mutombo - 3.3
Shaq - 2.9
Mourning - 2.9
Erwing Johnson - 2.8
Ewing - 2.4
Divac - 2.2
Hakeem - 2.2
Garnett - 2.1

Notice all the two way big men players. Prime Dwight is basically prime Mourning.

Steals

Mookie Blaylock - 2.7
Doug Christie - 2.5 (the great Kings defender)
Payton - 2.4
Eddie Jones - 2.4 (while scoring 20+ ppg)
Rick Fox - 2.2 (while being Shaqs role player along with Eddie Jones who got SWEPT by Jazz)
Wesley - 2.1
Iverson - 2.1
Stockton - 2.0 (while 10 apg)

3pt FG%

Glen Rice - 47% (yep that is that 'bum' Glen Rice scoring 26ppg on 47% 3pt, better stats than James Harden the co-mvp and Rice was not close to MVP that year)
Kerr - 47%
KJ - 44% (while scoring 20+ and dishing 9+ assists and dunking the ball)


Weak competition?

Not in any way. This was a time when league leaders were not specialists like Kyle Korver or Ibaka, but two way players. The league leaders were complete players.

This was the last year with the rookie class of 84-86 still being in tail end of their prime. After that the league dropped off massively as witnessed by the poor play and poor scoring of the next generation until rules changed.

[La Frescobaldi]

4 sweeps of DPOY and getting to the finals as the clear cut main man while being top 5 in MVP for 5 straight years. If not for peak physical lebron dwight would've realistically gotten 1-2 MVPs ... how can he NOT be top 50?

i don't know man there have been so many great players over the years and decades my head starts to swim thinking about them all lol!!

he was incredible over on the Magic that's all I know

[swagga]

i don't know man there have been so many great players over the years and decades my head starts to swim thinking about them all lol!!

he was incredible over on the Magic that's all I know

his defensive impact is really clear when you enumerate the other relevant players on the team:
jameer nelson
hedo turkoglu
rashard lewis
even with pietrus/lee/gortat as defensive role players that team had a lot of huge holes on defense : perimeter, post, pnr, you name it, they were exposed. Howard just erased all these mistakes. imo what he did back then is really underrated today.