Who's a better player Wade or CP3?

[BasedTom]

Hakeem is laughably underrated with these idiots here on ISH.

a lot of people have him in their top 10. some above lebron.

ISH is probably one of the few places where ppl seriously take into account how stacked a team was, era, etc as opposed to pure numbers or ring count.

[PsychoBe]

You are so ignorant here it's kind of sad.

I'll focus on the bold. Absolutely false.

Are you serious? You don't grade on an impact curve for positions. You don't say;

"well, Hakeem is better on defense, but it matters less because he's a center"

That isn't how it works.

This is what makes guys like Hakeem and Duncan better than Kobe...in my opinion of course.

You make it sound like we have to give Kobe extra credit for being a guard....

Even worse, I have never seen a Kobe fan or any other guard fan look at scoring for a big and talk about "relative to their position"...

Just to be clear...you think we should discount Kobe's scoring when we compare him to Duncan because shooting guards tend to score more and shoot more in this era. Right...we should grade on a curve for Duncan's scoring...right?

Interesting...I've never seen a Kobe fan want to grade on a curve like that.

The one great thing about this place is that you really never know what moronic thing a Kobe stan is gonna say next.

you're giving hakeem more credit than he deserves for his defense relative to kobe simply because he's a guard.

1: guards don't get dpoy considerations as often as big men. that's just a fact a life.

2: most/all advanced defensive metrics favor big-men over guards.

so of course hakeem will have more defensive impact as a big-man if his position puts him in a better position to have more defensive impact than any other position

come on now let's think outside the boxscore for a second. kobe bryant has the most 1st team all defensive selections than any other guard ever and did it while scoring more points than any other guard ever throughout his entire career.

let me repeat that.

kobe bean bryant has the most 1st nba all defense selections while scoring more total points than any other guard in the history of the nba.

you praise hakeem for being able to defend and score at great efficiency. that's great.

but by acclimation: no guard in the history of the national basketball association has ever accomplished what kobe has accomplished on both sides of the ball.

see what i mean by relative to their position? there will always be a gray area when comparing guards to big-men. that's why it's ridiculous to credit hakeem for averaging a double-double when he's always 5ft from the basket, just like it's ridiculous to penalize hakeem for averaging less assists than kobe since a guard will always be in a better position to get an assist than a big-man.

however, overall kobe is in a class of his own.

30k/6k/6k
(he's also top 15 in all-time steals btw)

placing hakeem over kobe all-time due to 2 finals series and imaginative "defensive impact" despite the fact kobe himself is an all-time great guard defender and has shut down offensive juggernauts such as russel westbrook makes no sense to me.

[WayOfWade]

^
How did a thread about Wade and CP3 evolve into Kobe vs Hakeem?

[PsychoBe]

wade is better than cp3 how is that not obvious?

[DMAVS41]

I'm not going to repeat myself, yet again, about all defensive selections.

Just a FYI to anyone interested...

Even if you were to grade "relative to position"...Hakeem still outclasses Kobe.

Hakeem was an elite defensive big for most of his career. Kobe was not an elite defensive perimeter player for most of his career.

Kobe never had the kind of consistent perimeter defensive impact an Artest, Battier, Iggy, Tony Allen, Kidd, AK47...etc. had.

Hakeem, on the other hand, was arguably the best of the best defensive big during his era. Certainly on the short list.

What I'm curious about though...is this grading on a curve thing.

Does that mean, one thinks that a player like Dirk was a better scorer than Kobe during 08-10? Because Kobe wasn't the highest scoring perimeter player, but Dirk was definitely the highest scoring big/post player over that 3 year period.

So if we grade on a relative to position curve...why doesn't offense/scoring fall into that?

[SugarHill]

we got dude really arguing kobe is a better defender than hakeem

[Smoke117]

why are you putting an injured player's stats?

and nice try but no. 09' clearly > 94' but hakeem can get the nod for 95' > 10' even though kobe's overall body of work is clearly more impressive than hakeem's, which is why he's considered the greatest laker ever.

also btw, kobe has more 1st all-defensive selections than any other guard (which i'm sure you're aware of) and completely shutdown russell westbrook in the 10' playoffs - a fact you conveniently left out because you barely know anything about kobe.

also, you keep stating hakeem's "impact" even though 1: dpoy is a regular season award much like the mvp and scoring title

and 2: hakeem could not stop shaq (who dropped 28 ppg on 60% shooting)

he did well on ewing but he's not an offensively talented player by any stretch of the imagination. you see how i didn't bring up kobe locking down turkulou or jameer nelson?

you can't keep trying to say "hakeem had more impact on defense" when all defensive big-man have more impact than guards, that's why you have to look at it relative to their positions.

and relative to his position, kobe is one of the greatest defensive/scoring guards ever (along with mj and peyton)

Relative to their positions Hakeem is a top tier defensive center all time...the best defensive player of the modern era (1980 to the present). What would you even know about it? You're a snot nosed teenager.