Will idiots ever stop using TEAM accomplishments over Player accomplishments

[Rake2204]

It's sad being an NBA fan nowadays where player accomplishments seem to hold more weight for the general populace than teams do.

I think it depends upon what is being weighed or gauged. When folks are discussing of whom may have been the more skilled basketball player, I think team accomplishments can be tough to use as a base argument. As someone else said, if LeBron James had spent his entire career on a team of mediocre talent and never won a championship, I believe his skill would have been just as legendarily advanced than if he joined up with a bunch of great teammates who all helped in winning championships.

On the other hand, if we're discussing legacies - like, the mythology of a given player - I can see how the championship angle could play a much heavier role.

[gasolina]

I think it depends upon what is being weighed or gauged. When folks are discussing of whom may have been the more skilled basketball player, I think team accomplishments can be tough to use as a base argument. As someone else said, if LeBron James had spent his entire career on a team of mediocre talent and never won a championship, I believe his skill would have been just as legendarily advanced than if he joined up with a bunch of great teammates who all helped in winning championships.

On the other hand, if we're discussing legacies - like, the mythology of a given player - I can see how the championship angle could play a much heavier role.

Let me rephrase. I don't care if player X is better than player Y. Teams win games/championships. I root for a team to win.

The talk of player legacies makes me sick. I don't think there's been a time like this where the name at the back has more value than the name in front.

[riseagainst]

Let me rephrase. I don't care if player X is better than player Y. Teams win games/championships. I root for a team to win.

The talk of player legacies makes me sick. I don't think there's been a time like this where the name at the back has more value than the name in front.

[Rake2204]

Let me rephrase. I don't care if player X is better than player Y. Teams win games/championships. I root for a team to win.

The talk of player legacies makes me sick. I don't think there's been a time like this where the name at the back has more value than the name in front.

Oh word word, I gotcha. My apologies on the misunderstanding.

I fall somewhere in the middle. The Detroit Pistons winning the 2004 NBA Championship was absolutely sublime. I was thrilled that my team emerged victorious and did so in the right way.

That said, on the other side of the coin, I admit I'm also a fan of many individual players and what they do on the court can often mean a lot to me, even if they weren't able to be a part of team that won an NBA championship. I'd say for me, it's not only whether you win or lose, but also how you play the game.

Still, on the off chance people are debating one player's individual skill versus another, I still believe team championships doesn't prove as much about a player's abilities as many often like to believe.

[97 bulls]

assists is a team accomplishment

rebounding is a team accomplishment ( your team or the other team has to shoot the ball)


(unless you take the ball coast to coast with no help screens) Scoring is a team accomplishment

winning is a team accomplishment

if winning is a team accomplishment...that means MVP's are a team accomplishment ( because MVP now goes to the best player on the best team / most wins )

Losing is a team accomplishment

since winning and Losing are team accomplishments...that means when comparing individual players...Titles are Overrated, winning is Overrated , Losing is Overrated.

Everything we have come to know and love about the game is Overrated...


in fact the only thing that isn't a team accomplishment is the Slam Dunk contest /skills challenge / 3 point shootout....


EDIT: Dam-nit.....Slam dunk contest is a team accomplishment now(starts off as a team vs team)...so is the skills challenge....



3 point shootout is all we have left

Great post. Funny thing is. There is a way to find out who the greatest is right now. PLAY ONE ON ONE. Why wont the NBA and players do this? A one on on match between Lebron James and Kevin Durant would be on the level of a title fight in the 70s between Ali and Frasier.

[97 bulls]

Let me rephrase. I don't care if player X is better than player Y. Teams win games/championships. I root for a team to win.

The talk of player legacies makes me sick. I don't think there's been a time like this where the name at the back has more value than the name in front.

Preach bro.

[Rake2204]

Great post. Funny thing is. There is a way to find out who the greatest is right now. PLAY ONE ON ONE. Why wont the NBA and players do this? A one on on match between Lebron James and Kevin Durant would be on the level of a title fight in the 70s between Ali and Frasier.

I cannot tell if you were being sarcastic in your post or not, so I apologize if I am misjudging your intent. I feel 1-on-1 reveals but a small portion of one's full basketball abilities. For instance, one of the most legendary aspects of LeBron James' game in such a scenario would be completely eliminated (his playmaking and passing abilities).

[97 bulls]

I still believe team championships doesn't prove as much about a player's abilities as many often like to believe.

Ive been preaching this for the longest. Give Dominique Wilkins ten years with far and away the best talent year in and out and hed be top 10 as well.

[97 bulls]

I cannot tell if you were being sarcastic in your post or not, so I apologize if I am misjudging your intent. I feel 1-on-1 reveals but a small portion of one's full basketball abilities. For instance, one of the most legendary aspects of LeBron James' game in such a scenario would be completely eliminated (his playmaking and passing abilities).

Absolutely. My point is that far too often a conversation between the Thunder and Heat evovlve into a convo as to who the better scorer is between James and Durant. If thats really that important, let's see it actually happen. The NBA should demand it. Thats seems to be all that todays fans are interested in anyway.

[FKAri]

If Lebron had stayed in Cleveland, they never attracted any big free agents, and he never won a ring how he would be perceived as a career loser.

[MavsSuperFan]

When ever discussing the greatness of a player "idiots" like to talk about the number of championships one has, or the TEAMS record against opposition. Just because a solid player on a great team has a few NBA championships doesn't mean he's the better player then a great player on a not so great team.

Had Lebron James NEVER won a championship, he's still the greatest talent the NBA has ever seen.

It depends.
Had lebron played great and just never got on a good enough team I would agree with you.

Had lebron had series like the 2011 finals, then no he would be a choker like peyton manning.

It matters when you are successful. Succeeding when it matters says something about you.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Had Lebron James NEVER won a championship, he's still the greatest talent the NBA has ever seen.

[sd3035]

When ever discussing the greatness of a player "idiots" like to talk about the number of championships one has, or the TEAMS record against opposition. Just because a solid player on a great team has a few NBA championships doesn't mean he's the better player then a great player on a not so great team.

Had Lebron James NEVER won a championship, he's still the greatest talent the NBA has ever seen.

He's not even the most talented on his own team

[Ai2death]

[QUOTE=TAZORAC]When ever discussing the greatness of a player "idiots" like to talk about the number of championships one has, or the TEAMS record against opposition. Just because a solid player on a great team has a few NBA championships doesn't mean he's the better player then a great player on a not so great team.

Had Lebron James NEVER won a championship, he's still one of the greatest players the NBA has ever seen.[/QUOTE]

Pretty much, but had to change the bold part

[Ai2death]

If Lebron had stayed in Cleveland, they never attracted any big free agents, and he never won a ring how he would be perceived as a career loser.

Is Barkley, Reggie Miller, TMac etc etc seen as career losers? No. They are amazing players, and to deny that would be pure stupidity. Things just didn't fall into place.