how good was Mike Tyson?

[Pointguard]

Tyson was 23 years old when Douglas DOMINATED him from the opening bell until he put him out of his misery. Why do you people act like he was some has been, past his prime fighter in his early 20s?

As said several times before, Tyson looked hung over. You are trying to act like this was regular young Tyson which is incorrect.

The crop of HWs in the late 80s when Tyson was knocking out tomato cans in the first 3 rounds was putrid. It improved vastly in the early 90s and Mike somehow managed to avoid that competition and focused on doing what he did before going to jail- knocking out tomato cans in the first 3 rounds. Then when he finally fought an elite fighter, he got slapped around like he was a hoe who owned her pimp money (I know, I know... Cus, Robin Givens, crack... even though he was coming off 4 straight fights that ended in early KOs, 2 being first rounders)

For comparison's sake, a fat old George Foreman in his 40s fought Cooney, Holyfield, Moore, Morrison, Briggs in the 90s.

Tyson fought Peter McNeeley

Foreman at ages 40-45 was the big man and Holyfield the light heavy weight was the man. You are making my point for me.

[DonDadda59]

As said several times before, Tyson looked hung over. You are trying to act like this was regular young Tyson which is incorrect.

Again... If he was hungover, that proves that he was an overrated mental midget. If Michael Phelps decided to smoke crack before an event and finished dead last, people wouldn't be like 'oh look at him, he's not the same. That's not the regular Phelps.' They'd say 'why the f*ck would he get high before an Olympic event? '

Guess things work differently in Tyson apologist land. You get a pass for smoking crack before defending your championship.

Again, Tyson was 23 years old when he was DOMINATED and Knocked out by James Buster Douglas. If you're saying that a boxer is past his prime in his early 20s and didn't have the sense or discipline to not smoke crack before a championship fight... Then you're basically admitting we're talking about the most overrated boxer ever.

Foreman at ages 40-45 was the big man and Holyfield the light heavy weight was the man. You are making my point for me.

And Tyson avoided an old fat Foreman and got KTFO and frustrated to the point of ear-biting by the clearly superior fighter in Holyfield.

If they fought 10 times, Holyfield crushes Mike 10 times... At any point of their HW careers. I might give Mike one on a lucky flash KO, but he'd probably smoke crack before the fight.

[Pointguard]

Have you ever actually watched the fight? Tyson was DOMINATED the entire fight and almost got a lucky KO in there. Buster gave him an old-fashioned boxing lesson. Tyson was too small to compete. Tall, rangy fighters who could stick and move were his kryptonite. Buster was just the first such fighter he faced.

And discipline is part of the game. You don't get a pass for getting high the night before a championship fight. What other athlete would get a pass for getting high before a championship? I swear this man could slaughter a whole litter of kittens and you'd still find some sort of excuse.

I admit his game fell off. But looking at it from a pure boxing point answer these questions:

Name me a heavy weight that you saw in your lifetime that had better upper body movement, better combo's, better power in either hand, better defense to offense and better killer instinct. He was quick, with great ability to cut off the ring. He had the best package in boxing ever.

When I was one years old I could tell that Buster won that night so it doesn't look good when you think you're making a good point with repeating that.

From the total skills point and advantages the Tyson story is one of the best out there.

[iamgine]

If Michael Phelps decided to smoke crack before an event and finished dead last, people wouldn't be like 'oh look at him, he's not the same. That's not the regular Phelps.' They'd say 'why the f*ck would he get high before an Olympic event? '

I think people would say both things.

[Pointguard]

Again... If he was hungover, that proves that he was an overrated mental midget. If Michael Phelps decided to smoke crack before an event and finished dead last, people wouldn't be like 'oh look at him, he's not the same. That's not the regular Phelps.' They'd say 'why the f*ck would he get high before an Olympic event? '

Guess things work differently in Tyson apologist land. You get a pass for smoking crack before defending your championship.

Again, Tyson was 23 years old when he was DOMINATED and Knocked out by James Buster Douglas. If you're saying that a boxer is past his prime in his early 20s and didn't have the sense or discipline to not smoke crack before a championship fight... Then you're basically admitting we're talking about the most overrated boxer ever.

And Tyson avoided an old fat Foreman and got KTFO and frustrated to the point of ear-biting by the clearly superior fighter in Holyfield.

If they fought 10 times, Holyfield crushes Mike 10 times... At any point of their HW careers. I might give Mike one on a lucky flash KO, but he'd probably smoke crack before the fight.

He never smoked crack before a fight. You're getting silly now.

Great fighters do great things and it never last forever. Talk about skills/ fundamentals/ advantages/ Power/defense/ movement/combinations who are we comparing him to? Simple question?

[DonDadda59]

I admit his game fell off. But looking at it from a pure boxing point answer these questions:

Name me a heavy weight that you saw in your lifetime that had better upper body movement, better combo's, better power in either hand, better defense to offense and better killer instinct. He was quick, with great ability to cut off the ring. He had the best package in boxing ever.

Tyson was about even with Tua. As far as physical specimens at HW go, Ike Ibeabuchi takes the cake. Too bad he was even crazier than Tyson. Bowe was also something- 6'5" 250-270 but quick, agile.

Bold =

When I was one years old I could tell that Buster won that night so it doesn't look good when you think you're making a good point with repeating that.

From the total skills point and advantages the Tyson story is one of the best out there.

*Until he started facing elite competition, which was rarely.

[DonDadda59]

He never smoked crack before a fight.

My bad, just cocaine technically before championship fights.

[INDENT]Mike Tyson admits to being high on drugs during major fights, and using a fake ***** to avoid detection

The former world heavyweight boxing champion disclosed in a new tell-all memoir that he spent a significant stretch of his turbulent career addicted to cocaine and marijuana.

[Rooster]

Tyson was about even with Tua. As far as physical specimens at HW go, Ike Ibeabuchi takes the cake. Too bad he was even crazier than Tyson. Bowe was also something- 6'5" 250-270 but quick, agile.

Bold =



*Until he started facing elite competition, which was rarely.

There would be no Klitschko era if Ike was not derangedly insane. I like the fact that you bring him up with this Tyson talk.

[Rooster]

Its funny because how many era's have you personally seen. The Kiltzcho era was the weakest era I ever saw. Before that Holyfield dominated and he was a light heavy weight that didn't have good defense. Lennox Lewis had real problems with Rahman and Bowe. So give me an idea of how you are ranking these eras.

When did Lewis had problems with Bowe

Holyfield dominated?

When did that happen

[plowking]

I've never seen an athlete have so many different excuses for not living up to the hype. Now it was because of his wife? Thought it was Cus not being around.

Tyson was 23 years old and in his prime when Buster clowned him.

You clearly understand all the hurdles people face and that they all handle them exactly the same. Clearly Tyson didn't go through any adversity in his life according to you. He had it really easy.

Funny for you to talk about excuses when you were harping on about a sore shoulder for god knows how long after two fighters fought recently. You're probably still going on about it.

[plowking]

But people talk about him in an all-time context, which is absolutely ridiculous. His highlight mix is one of the best ever, but he came up during an extremely weak era for the HW division. I give him credit for dominating the scene in the mid-80s, but it was nothing to speak of.

When he finally fought other great fighters of his generation starting with Holyfield in the early-90s, his flaws were glaring. Boxing can be as much mental as physical and Mike simply had no "Plan B" against a beast like Holyfield who wasn't afraid of Mike.

Mike clearly wasn't the same boxer when he fought Holyfield. Even 10 fights prior...

Which bit of that is arguable? Some of you are intent on reminding us that he lost these fights as if we don't know, but you don't do anything to address the point. The point is, he wasn't the same fighter. Acting as if it is ridiculous to claim that he peaked and faded as quickly as he did is stupid. It happens all the time in sports.
He was the youngest heavyweight champion of all time... Let that sink in. Is it not completely possible he peaked and faded quickly due to outside circumstances?

[masonanddixon]

Good but overrated, lost to every elite boxer he fought.

[DonDadda59]

You clearly understand all the hurdles people face and that they all handle them exactly the same. Clearly Tyson didn't go through any adversity in his life according to you. He had it really easy.

Type that again as I play this tiny violin.

It's not like most fighters come from hard/troubled backgrounds. Only Mike Tyson is affected by the death of non family members and his spouse. That's why by 23, when he was bamboozled by a B class fighter, he was already past his prime and finished as a fighter.

Mike clearly wasn't the same boxer when he fought Holyfield. Even 10 fights prior...

Tyson's 4 fights before Holyfield:

McNeeley- DQ (1st round KO really)
Seldon- 1st Round Round KO
Buster Mathis- 3rd Round KO
Frank Bruno- 3rd Round KO

Dude was fighting a slightly higher caliber of fighters than he was before going to prison and he was getting the same results- early KOs vs overmatched opponents, 2 being 1st rounders.

Holyfield was 4 years older than Mike, a career Cruiserweight, and opened as the 25-1 underdog.

Still beat his ass twice, just to let you know him Knocking Tyson out was no fluke. Like I said before, they fight 10 times at any point of their respective careers, Evander wins 10 times because he was clearly... Clearly the superior fighter.

Clearly.

[iamgine]

ITT we can see the same arguments that has been re-hashed millions of times between the two school of thoughts.

[warriorfan]

Good Tyson Documentary Produced by Carmelo Anthony