how good was Mike Tyson?

[FillJackson]

Watching the Buster Douglas fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8z0xoMze8U


Douglas better from the very first round. Beginning of the third round

Douglas landed 52 punchs to Tyson's 16. Announcers already talking about shocking the world.

Douglas is very sharp. Quick feet, good lateral movement. Quick and heavy jab giving Tyson trouble. Never intimidated

Plus Douglas had a great strategy to frustrate Tyson. Tyson never really gets to fight the fight he wants to fight. When Tyson charges, Buster either slips to the side or makes him pay with a jab.

[DonDadda59]

Watching the Buster Douglas fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8z0xoMze8U


Douglas better from the very first round. Beginning of the third round

Douglas landed 52 punchs to Tyson's 16. Announcers already talking about shocking the world.

Douglas is very sharp. Quick feet, good lateral movement. Quick and heavy jab giving Tyson trouble. Never intimidated

Plus Douglas had a great strategy to frustrate Tyson. Tyson never really gets to fight the fight he wants to fight. When Tyson charges, Buster either slips to the side or makes him pay with a jab.

Yeah it wasn't like Buster got some lucky fluke win or a flash KO. He broke down and dominated Tyson from pillar to post. Outboxed him, controlled the action, closed the show. It was a one-sided ass whooping and boxing lesson. If anyone almost got a lucky KO, it was Mike.

Exactly the type of fighter that is anathema to Mike's style- tall, rangy, with boxing skills and a crisp jab. Exactly why Tyson and his people wanted nothing to do with Bowe.

Also ducked a fat, old waaaaay past prime George Foreman. And Big George's 90s HW opponent resume was more impressive than Tyson's.

[Pointguard]

He was very good, explosively fast, but he dominated during a weak era.

He built his record facing a long line of stiffs without defensive skills.

If you were going to let Tyson hit you, you weren't going last long.

The era of Big Heavyweights that followed exposed a lot of weaknesses in his game. Buster Douglas was 6'4" and if you were tall with a good jab, you could do a good job of neutralizing him. You had to stop him from coming at you and a strong jab and a good reach was a big help.

The Buster Douglas upset was before he went to jail and when he should still have been in his prime. He was only 24 years old.

He was supposed to fight Holyfield before he went to jail, but the fight was cancelled. I think Holyfield would have beaten him in that fight.

Note how the uppercut that finished him was preceded by several jabs.

Robin Givens was his downfall. If you seriously think Buster Douglas was in the same class as pre-Givens Mike Tyson you need your head checked. You obviously forgot that Larry Holmes jab was the best jab artist in the heavy weight division since Ali's jab. And Holmes was a lot smarter than Buster Douglas.

Holyfield didn't have much of a defense at all and never did. Young Tyson might have been the best knockout artist ever. Tyson lost those fights mentioned above on being lost mentally about his wife. I lived up the block from them once they started dating and I recall her head games on him. Buster Douglas wasn't in a class below Mike Tyson, he was more like two.

As far as combinations, speed, power, defense and finishing, young Tyson was top five in all those categories in the all time heavy weight categories. That's insane. Cus D' Mato kept him focused. Here is a clip showing his defense to offense: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYZzMPsm6c4

[DonDadda59]

Robin Givens was his downfall. If you seriously think Buster Douglas was in the same class as pre-Givens Mike Tyson you need your head checked.

I've never seen an athlete have so many different excuses for not living up to the hype. Now it was because of his wife? Thought it was Cus not being around.

Tyson was 23 years old and in his prime when Buster clowned him.

[FillJackson]

Robin Givens was his downfall. If you seriously think Buster Douglas was in the same class as pre-Givens Mike Tyson you need your head checked. You obviously forgot that Larry Holmes jab was the best jab artist in the heavy weight division since Ali's jab. And Holmes was a lot smarter than Buster Douglas.

Holyfield didn't have much of a defense at all and never did. Young Tyson might have been the best knockout artist ever. Tyson lost those fights mentioned above on being lost mentally about his wife. I lived up the block from them once they started dating and I recall her head games on him. Buster Douglas wasn't in a class below Mike Tyson, he was more like two.

As far as combinations, speed, power, defense and finishing, young Tyson was top five in all those categories in the all time heavy weight categories. That's insane. Cus D' Mato kept him focused. Here is a clip showing his defense to offense: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYZzMPsm6c4

Holmes lost to Spinks and then retired for two years and came back to fight tyson at age 38. And he went 4 rounds with Tyson. So what does that tell us.

Also I think Mike Tyson would have wound up being Mike Tyson if he never met Robin Givens and if Cus and Kevin Rooney lived. I think he kept that side of himself in check for a while and then once he achieved what he achieved he was going to indulge himself and slip.

The Douglas Tyson fight was a case of an underachiever getting in his best shape and finally fighting up to his potential and a knockout artist didn't work as hard as he used to and met a guy who could expose his weaknesses.

Tyson stopped improving and fell back. He stopped moving defensively and didn't throw body shots and he paid for it.

[sd3035]

Tyson was out all night partying before the Buster Douglas fight, he was hungover as hell and tired af

[DonDadda59]

Tyson was out all night partying before the Buster Douglas fight, he was hungover as hell and tired af

The JR Smith of Boxing.

Mental midgets tend to not to give 100% when they should. Then the excuses flow afterwards.

People may remember Tyson ducking Riddick Bowe due to their 'friendship', but they probably forgot him shamelessly ducking the corpse of George Foreman.

Big George on the situation

Mike 'Cus died. My wife. Out partying. etc etc' Tyson:

While we were eating, Benton said, "Bobby, what's up with Foreman and Tyson, how come they're not fighting each other on the 16th? Isn't that the fight that King was trying to make?" He said, "Georgie, You'll never believe this but, ****in' Tyson is scared shit less of Foreman and wants no part of him. I was there when Don was trying to make the fight. He was telling Tyson that Foreman represented huge money, plus he was old and slow and would be no problem. Tyson got up and screamed at King saying, 'I'm not fight in' that ****in' animal, if you love the mother****er so much, you fight him!'"

Goodman stated that Tyson said Foreman was much better than people thought, and was a dangerous fight for any of the top heavyweights. Goodman proceeded to explain how Tyson was calling Foreman a big con man, and explained that the grandpop act was just a front. He said Tyson saw Foreman as trying to set up the boxing world into thinking he was a pushover, knowing that he really wasn't. Tyson said Foreman was a wolf in sheep's clothing. Goodman continued to say that after seeing Tyson's response to King trying to push him into a fight with Foreman, he had no doubt that Tyson had fear of Foreman. He also said that from that point on, he felt that if Foreman and Tyson ever fought, Foreman would knock Tyson out!

Shameful

[warriorfan]

The JR Smith of Boxing.

Mental midgets tend to not to give 100% when they should. Then the excuses flow afterwards.

People may remember Tyson ducking Riddick Bowe due to their 'friendship', but they probably forgot him shamelessly ducking the corpse of George Foreman.

Big George on the situation

Mike 'Cus died. My wife. Out partying. etc etc' Tyson:

While we were eating, Benton said, "Bobby, what's up with Foreman and Tyson, how come they're not fighting each other on the 16th? Isn't that the fight that King was trying to make?" He said, "Georgie, You'll never believe this but, ****in' Tyson is scared shit less of Foreman and wants no part of him. I was there when Don was trying to make the fight. He was telling Tyson that Foreman represented huge money, plus he was old and slow and would be no problem. Tyson got up and screamed at King saying, 'I'm not fight in' that ****in' animal, if you love the mother****er so much, you fight him!'"

Goodman stated that Tyson said Foreman was much better than people thought, and was a dangerous fight for any of the top heavyweights. Goodman proceeded to explain how Tyson was calling Foreman a big con man, and explained that the grandpop act was just a front. He said Tyson saw Foreman as trying to set up the boxing world into thinking he was a pushover, knowing that he really wasn't. Tyson said Foreman was a wolf in sheep's clothing. Goodman continued to say that after seeing Tyson's response to King trying to push him into a fight with Foreman, he had no doubt that Tyson had fear of Foreman. He also said that from that point on, he felt that if Foreman and Tyson ever fought, Foreman would knock Tyson out!

Shameful

He said, she said, he said, that whole set of supposed encounters sounds like some made up nonsense

As for Tyson being a mental midget, he was, he was from the hood and had nothing positive going in his life before boxing and then Cus. After Cus died Tyson got surrounded by sharks, without his only positive influence there to guide him he was simply done


You guys can talk shit about Tyson being a knuckleheaded bum but there is no way you can say he wasn't an amazing boxing talent

[RedBlackAttack]

Mike was a damn good boxer... he also happens to be one of the most overrated athletes in history. It's not his fault and he'd probably be the first one to correct the record.

But people talk about him in an all-time context, which is absolutely ridiculous. His highlight mix is one of the best ever, but he came up during an extremely weak era for the HW division. I give him credit for dominating the scene in the mid-80s, but it was nothing to speak of.

When he finally fought other great fighters of his generation starting with Holyfield in the early-90s, his flaws were glaring. Boxing can be as much mental as physical and Mike simply had no "Plan B" against a beast like Holyfield who wasn't afraid of Mike.

Being an all-time great means rising to those challenges.... it means sometimes having to adapt on the fly, in the ring against another great fighter.

Mike would shrink in those moments.

We had a really good thread on this topic years ago.

[Pointguard]

Holmes lost to Spinks and then retired for two years and came back to fight tyson at age 38. And he went 4 rounds with Tyson. So what does that tell us.

Jab was still superior to Buster Doublass's.

Also I think Mike Tyson would have wound up being Mike Tyson if he never met Robin Givens and if Cus and Kevin Rooney lived. I think he kept that side of himself in check for a while and then once he achieved what he achieved he was going to indulge himself and slip.

Too hard to guess on. I will tell you life experiences tend to prove that most people who have someone to keep them focused are much more successful than those who don't. Tyson was wild when he wasn't focused and you can tell that in every stage in his life... even right now... on the positive side.

The Douglas Tyson fight was a case of an underachiever getting in his best shape and finally fighting up to his potential and a knockout artist didn't work as hard as he used to and met a guy who could expose his weaknesses.

Tyson stopped improving and fell back. He stopped moving defensively and didn't throw body shots and he paid for it.

I don't have a problem with this at all. Young Tyson absolutely destroys Buster Douglas. In what I read above it seemed like you were saying that Buster Douglas happened before jail and it was some indication that Tyson finally ran into a good heavyweight which Buster wasn't as good as a lot of Tyson's earlier victories. As the poster above says, Tyson looked hung over fighting Douglas.

[Pointguard]

Mike was a damn good boxer... he also happens to be one of the most overrated athletes in history. It's not his fault and he'd probably be the first one to correct the record.

But people talk about him in an all-time context, which is absolutely ridiculous. His highlight mix is one of the best ever, but he came up during an extremely weak era for the HW division. I give him credit for dominating the scene in the mid-80s, but it was nothing to speak of.

Its funny because how many era's have you personally seen. The Kiltzcho era was the weakest era I ever saw. Before that Holyfield dominated and he was a light heavy weight that didn't have good defense. Lennox Lewis had real problems with Rahman and Bowe. So give me an idea of how you are ranking these eras.

In the modern Heavy Weight era, Tyson had the best killer instinct, the best punching power with either hand, the best defense, the best combo puncher and he's somehow overrated when compared to who???

[iamgine]

I subscribe to both these schools.

It's contradictory schools.

One says in his 'prime' Tyson can beat anyone on any given night. Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Lewis, etc. He had reached that level or at least very close. Plus he had all the physical tools to go even higher.

The other says he's never been on their level. Not even close. Not in his prime, not ever. It's an insult to these guys that he's mentioned on the same pedestal as them. Massively overrated.

The similarity between these two schools are they both admit young Mike obviously had mental problems which was kept in check by Cus.

[Pointguard]

I've never seen an athlete have so many different excuses for not living up to the hype. Now it was because of his wife? Thought it was Cus not being around.

Tyson was 23 years old and in his prime when Buster clowned him.

But he looked hung over and you were acting like it was Tyson at his best. Tyson was one of the most skilled, power punchers ever without question. Buster was ok at best.

[DonDadda59]

Young Tyson absolutely destroys Buster Douglas.

Tyson was 23 years old when Douglas DOMINATED him from the opening bell until he put him out of his misery. Why do you people act like he was some has been, past his prime fighter in his early 20s?

He was just finally matched up with a style that wasn't conducive to victory for him, a pattern that played out numerous times later in his career- dominated and then KTFO by a superior fighter. Bowe = Buster on the super soldier serum, hence why Tyson and his handlers wanted absolutely nothing to do with that fight. Big Daddy would've taken Mike to the cleaners.

and he's somehow overrated when compared to who???

The crop of HWs in the late 80s when Tyson was knocking out tomato cans in the first 3 rounds was putrid. It improved vastly in the early 90s and Mike somehow managed to avoid that competition and focused on doing what he did before going to jail- knocking out tomato cans in the first 3 rounds. Then when he finally fought an elite fighter, he got slapped around like he was a hoe who owned her pimp money (I know, I know... Cus, Robin Givens, crack... even though he was coming off 4 straight fights that ended in early KOs, 2 being first rounders)

For comparison's sake, a fat old George Foreman in his 40s fought Cooney, Holyfield, Moore, Morrison, Briggs in the 90s.

Tyson fought Peter McNeeley

[DonDadda59]

But he looked hung over and you were acting like it was Tyson at his best. Tyson was one of the most skilled, power punchers ever without question. Buster was ok at best.

Have you ever actually watched the fight? Tyson was DOMINATED the entire fight and almost got a lucky KO in there. Buster gave him an old-fashioned boxing lesson. Tyson was too small to compete. Tall, rangy fighters who could stick and move were his kryptonite. Buster was just the first such fighter he faced.

And discipline is part of the game. You don't get a pass for getting high the night before a championship fight. What other athlete would get a pass for getting high before a championship? I swear this man could slaughter a whole litter of kittens and you'd still find some sort of excuse.