Kevin Durant vs Larry Bird

[NuggetsFan]

You get steals, you're a good defender.

George Karl that you?

I don't know if I'm alone on this but that seems ridiculous to me. For example this year Denver was what the worst or 2nd worst team in the league defensively? Yet they had to be in the top 10 in steals per game. Forcing turnovers is HUGE and obviously leads to winning but I think it's more because it get's you good looks offensively alot of the time. That's with a team effort too and you rack up 8-9 steals. Can't do that individually consistently.

Defensively it's still just one possession. Mike Conley\Chris Paul were the only two players in the league who hit above 2 per game. That's 2ish possessions where the league leader is directly affecting the play. Probably affects a teams offensively gameplan when going up against a Rondo\Paul or something but in the grand scheme of things doesn't seem as important in a 48 minute game.

Lawson's 21st in the league in steals and he doesn't have great length to contest shooters. Isn't even above average defensively. Yet he averages .3 less than the person in 10th place, who really is in the same boat IMO. Jeff Teague. Guy's like Shumpert\Iggy\Allen\LeBron who are near the top of the list are considered good defenders not because they just steal the ball but because they do everything. Shumpert has great on ball defense, LeBron has so much versatility, Iggy once again has great on ball defense while able to play to the passing lanes with that.

If all those guy's averaged 1 steal per game they'd still be elite defensively IMO. Where as Paul Milsap can average as many steals per game as he wants but that doesn't make him better defensively than somebody like Shane Battier. Give me Arron Afflalo(not this year but the year before) consistently defending every possession and making smart rotations, giving help etc. over somebody like Iverson attacking the lanes but not doing anything else. Not to take away from A.I because I think he's better defensively than he's made out to be with his lateral quickness but just my take.

Gotta derail this thread

[OldSchoolBBall]

Durant is the better scorer, Bird is the better player.

How Is Durant a better scorer than Bird? Bird's best 3 seasons:

29.9 pts/52.7% FG/60.8% TS
28.7 pts/52.2% FG/58.5% TS
28.1 pts/52.5% FG/61.2% TS

Durant's best 3:

30.1 pts/47.6% FG/60.7% TS
28.0 pts/49.6% FG/61.0% TS
27.7 pts/46.2% FG/58.9% TS

Looks about the same to me, edge to Bird. Bird also played more of a team concept than Durant does and could have definitely scored more if needed (in the 31-32.5 ppg range on 49-51% FG/57.5-59% TS, I'd estimate).

[Round Mound]

The Myth that Bird wasn`t a Good Defender...Still Reigns. Regins in Stupidity

[kenny817]

[KevinNYC]

The Myth that Bird wasn`t a Good Defender...Still Reigns. Regins in Stupidity

Every time this comes up I point to what Hubie Brown said about him in the moment and shows what kind of defender Bird was before the back and ankle injuries. After a playoff game where Bird went 16-22 and scored 37 points. Hubie pointed out his defense.

Hubie noticed. The maniacal New York czar hardly mentioned Bird's deadly shooting, but said, "The entire Boston team played great defense, but the one man the purists noticed was Bird. He's the real key to their defense. Bird reminded us tonight of a middle line-backer the way he roamed around out there. His ability to clog the lane, double team and strip the ball were the keys to their defense."

A couple of other comments made in an old thread on Bird's defense

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...9&postcount=14

Yes, he was a terrible defender who was voted 2nd team All-Defensive 3 years straight
1981-82 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1982-83 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1983-84 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)

He was so bad at defense, at 6' 9" he averaged 1.7 steals a game for his career and if you look at the first 9 years before he tore both his achilles tendons, he had almost 1300 steals and 7300 rebounds. How unique is that? He is the only player in the league during that time to do it. The next closest guy had about 500 less steals.

The only other players who have had a 9 year streak with over 1200 steals and 7000 rebounds since are Hakeem and Shawn Marion.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...7&postcount=26

One thing that drives me nuts about this site when players get compared, and folks say yeah, but he can't do X.

For example, Kevin McHale is a great shot blocker and a good one on one defender, but he could not make most of the defensive plays that Bird could. It just wasn't his game, but people would never hold that against him. Like Magic was bad defensively because couldn't guard a small, quick point guard. Well, how many 6'8" guys could? It's like I'm really good guitarist, but I can't play the violin, so that makes me a bad musician? Ridiculous.

You can be a good defensive player in a different way than another good defensive player

[CavaliersFTW]

Both were measured at 6'9 in their bare feet and play/played small forward. Other than that their game isn't similar, and in a season to season comparison to this point in their careers as well as a simple eye test, Bird is better. Larry Legend. Durant is doing his own thing and he's on a good track but let's not forget that some players can end up a flash in the pan IE T-Mac so let's not get ahead of ourselves. If in 5 years he's still producing strong and has won at least 1 or 2 rings then go ahead and bump this thread otherwise it's way too premature.

[KevinNYC]

That said, Kevin Durant is a great player and putting up serious scoring numbers at a young age. The person who compared his best seasons to Bird is using season where Bird was several years older.


However, at this stage of his career it's silly to compare him to Bird. Dude doesn't even have a Hall Of Fame Probablity rating at basketball-reference.com because he hasn't played enough games yet.

[Mach_3]

Every time this comes up I point to what Hubie Brown said about him in the moment and shows what kind of defender Bird was before the back and ankle injuries. After a playoff game where Bird went 16-22 and scored 37 points. Hubie pointed out his defense.



A couple of other comments made in an old thread on Bird's defense

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...9&postcount=14


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...7&postcount=26


You can be a good defensive player in a different way than another good defensive player

There is no reason to make this comparison as of right now

[ILLsmak]

KD has potential to be better than Bird. He's well on his way, I think.

And I love Bird. KD is a monster, though, but it's too soon to compare them. Do it after he retires.

-Smak

[Bigsmoke]

Bird

[lilgodfather1]

Stop it! This conversation can't begin until Durant wins multiple rings.

People are going to start ruining one of the few likable and genuine superstars left in the NBA.

Since there are two, maybe three superstars in the NBA who are you talking about? Wade, LeBron, or Howard?

[dunksby]

KD can become better if he improves at this rate in 2-3 years but for now it's clearly Bird.

[Round Mound]

Larry Bird was a Great Post Defender and When Played Loose Off the Ball (Todays Zones) He Might Have Been the Best Ever

Statistics Also Show Bird as a Top Defender

Individual Defense

Defensive Rating

1979-80 NBA 98.2 (6)
1980-81 NBA 98.6 (10)
1981-82 NBA 99.4 (6)
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]1983-84 NBA 100.8 (2)[/COLOR]
1984-85 NBA 102.8 (9)
1985-86 NBA 99.4 (4)


Defense - Team Wise

Defensive Win Shares

[COLOR="darkgreen"]1979-80 NBA 5.6 (1)
1980-81 NBA 6.1 (1)[/COLOR]
1981-82 NBA 5.7 (2)
1982-83 NBA 5.6 (5)
[COLOR="darkgreen"]1983-84 NBA 5.6 (1)[/COLOR]
1984-85 NBA 5.2 (2)
[COLOR="darkgreen"]1985-86 NBA 6.2 (1) [/COLOR]
1986-87 NBA 4.8 (6)
Career NBA 59.0 (25)

In the Play-Offs - Individual Defense

Year Lg Player DRtg Tm

2012 NBA Kevin Garnett 92.36 BOS
2011 NBA Dwight Howard 95.73 ORL
2010 NBA Dwight Howard 92.98 ORL
2009 NBA Dwight Howard 98.35 ORL
2008 NBA Tim Duncan 98.51 SAS
2007 NBA Jason Kidd 94.63 NJN
2006 NBA Alonzo Mourning 95.13 MIA
2005 NBA Ben Wallace 93.48 DET
2004 NBA Ben Wallace 83.91 DET
2003 NBA Ben Wallace 90.51 DET
2002 NBA Ben Wallace 86.41 DET
2001 NBA David Robinson* 92.42 SAS
2000 NBA David Robinson* 84.01 SAS
1999 NBA David Robinson* 87.33 SAS
1998 NBA David Robinson* 93.42 SAS
1997 NBA Alonzo Mourning 94.64 MIA
1996 NBA Scottie Pippen* 96.07 CHI
1995 NBA David Robinson* 97.53 SAS
1994 NBA Patrick Ewing* 94.34 NYK
1993 NBA Hakeem Olajuwon* 96.56 HOU
1992 NBA Dennis Rodman* 99.35 DET
1991 NBA Scottie Pippen* 99.52 CHI
1990 NBA Bill Laimbeer 96.32 DET
1989 NBA Dennis Rodman* 99.38 DET
1988 NBA Bill Laimbeer 99.51 DET
1987 NBA Hakeem Olajuwon* 102.24 HOU
1986 NBA Bill Walton* 100.62 BOS
1985 NBA Ralph Sampson* 97.16 HOU
1984 NBA Buck Williams 99.41 NJN
1983 NBA Moses Malone* 95.76 PHI
[COLOR="darkgreen"]1982 NBA Larry Bird* 94.21 BOS[/COLOR]
1981 NBA Truck Robinson 94.51 PHO
[COLOR="darkgreen"]1980 NBA Larry Bird* 95.93 BOS[/COLOR]

[inclinerator]

[Micku]

I was actually thinking about this a week ago.

Durant I think better scorer for his age in comparison when Bird was the same age. Durant already have three scoring titles, but that's more relative to the league. However, Durant scored more in his third year in his regular season than Bird has ever did in his career. Not but much, but it's still very impressive considering his age. And Durant is the better driver probably?

Bird's better at almost everything else. And he is the better player at making his teammates better. And his post defense is better than Durant is currently. A bunch of people underrated Bird's defense. At that time, he was a pretty good help defender, an average man to man defender, but a pretty good post defender. Also, Bird is a much better passer and a creator than Durant atm. Just because Durant is probably the better scroer, it doesn't mean that he is better. Especially on the impact on the floor which Bird shown. His rookie year was extremely impressive in how he turned the Celtics around into a 29 win to a 61 win team.

Both are great moving without the ball. However, Bird had a post game and seemed more complete in his early years in comparison to Durant, but Durant is the better scorer. Though Bird was the type of player that don't need to score or didn't score as much because he did other things. Could he score more if he wanted too in the regular season? Maybe. It's similar to Magic Johnson. He could've scored more than what he shown.

With that said, it's unfair to compare Durant to Bird because Durant probably haven't shown us his absolute best yet. While Bird had an entire career. But one thing is for sure even though it's going to sound like a broken record, Durant is at his age is a great scorer and on pace to be better than Bird career wise.

Although when Bird did score more in his prime, there's hardly a big difference in terms of scoring to where Durant is now. And the rules did change, so it's hard to compare. Bird said that he will be a power forward in today's game because it would be easier to abuse that position because they wouldn't be able to touch you comparison to back then accoriding to Bird.

But in Bird's prime, he was a better passer, creator, rebounder, better post game, and a better post defender. Also Bird did average more steals than Durant, and he has quicker hands.

But that also could be due to the pacing, but probably not that much. I don't pacing affect stars that much. Look at Bird's rebounding in his last year with a screwed up back, a slower paced league in comparison to the 80s, and being 35 years old. He still averaged 9.6 rebounds per game.