All-time peak draft 1 team thread

[kshutts1]

Finally reading breakdowns. Here are my thoughts:
Team Wally. Wow. Fabulous breakdown, but arguably a better team. Potential favorite. I also think that you are the only team to build a fully more current team, as in focused on the back court. Though I have not gone through all yet, so maybe I'm wrong. But that definitely jumped out at me.

Team Kizzle. I don't think there's any argument that you likely have the most talented roster. But I'm very curious to see how you address the spacing and chemistry issues that are apparent to the rest of us. I have no doubt you've got a great point of two in those areas.

Team BarkleyNash. You have Shaq and Chuck, so I don't know if anything else matters... but your defense really concerns me, as does your outside shooting. This is assuming Reggie and Battier don't play heavy minutes, per your rotation "guidelines". Looks like you went the "out run and out score" route... but that works best in a watered-down league, not this uber-stacked one. I question that philosophy.

Team BoutPractice. I love the theory behind your team. But, similar to BarkleyNash, I'm not entirely sure that a team/offense based around athleticism, backdoor cuts and fast break points is viable in an all-time league. Also, your outside shooting is lacking, and you have (probably) the lowest talent level in the league. All those negatives considered, still a super dangerous squad and, again, I really do like the theory behind it.

Team Dr.Hee. I take back what I said about BoutPractice. You're the least talented roster so far. But you're also built like a team. A very successful team. True '04 Pistons v Lakers(iirc) in most of your matchups. I'm also not sure you have enough ball handling on your roster.

Team Rizko. Seems like your team lacks creating ability. Not too many people can reliably create their own shot. That said, you have two of the most efficient guys ever, in Durant and KAJ. Solid chemistry strategy too. My biggest question for you is... what do you do if KAJ has an off game? You rely on him a lot.

Team Marchesk. Team definitely lacks spacing. Not shooting, necessarily, but spacing. Thomas, Duncan, Parish, Doc all want to be in the paint, or at least very near it. Kobe, Allen and Peja are really the only players that are most comfortable beyond fifteen feet. Also have minimal post depth. Your starting 2, 3, 4 are so nasty, though. A lot of people consider all 3 of them to be top 12 players ever.

[kshutts1]

And I was reminded to add years to my players...

Nash - 07/08. 17/11 on 50/47/91.
Bowen - 02/03. Shot 44% on 3p, taking almost 3 a game. We all know about the defense
TMac - 02/03. 32/7/6 on 46/39/79. The best year for the offensive centerpiece.
KG - 24/14/5/2.2blocks on 50/25/79. MVP year for him. Chemistry not an issue.
Russell - 61/62. 19/24/5 on 46% shooting. But he ranked very highly in relation to the league, which is more important than the raw %.

Hinrich - 06/07. Second team all D. 17/6 on 45/42/84.
Baylor - 61/62. It's not his best shooting year, but he got the line a ridiculous 13 times a game. That's going to be helpful when we face teams with the freaks.
Pettit - 62/63. Similar to Baylor, not his best year, but got to the line at a great rate. 11 a game. 28/15/3 on 45/78.
Marc Gasol - 12/13. DPOY. 14/8/4 on 50/85.

[dr.hee]

Finally reading breakdowns. Here are my thoughts:
Team Wally. Wow. Fabulous breakdown, but arguably a better team. Potential favorite. I also think that you are the only team to build a fully more current team, as in focused on the back court. Though I have not gone through all yet, so maybe I'm wrong. But that definitely jumped out at me.

Team Kizzle. I don't think there's any argument that you likely have the most talented roster. But I'm very curious to see how you address the spacing and chemistry issues that are apparent to the rest of us. I have no doubt you've got a great point of two in those areas.

Team BarkleyNash. You have Shaq and Chuck, so I don't know if anything else matters... but your defense really concerns me, as does your outside shooting. This is assuming Reggie and Battier don't play heavy minutes, per your rotation "guidelines". Looks like you went the "out run and out score" route... but that works best in a watered-down league, not this uber-stacked one. I question that philosophy.

Team BoutPractice. I love the theory behind your team. But, similar to BarkleyNash, I'm not entirely sure that a team/offense based around athleticism, backdoor cuts and fast break points is viable in an all-time league. Also, your outside shooting is lacking, and you have (probably) the lowest talent level in the league. All those negatives considered, still a super dangerous squad and, again, I really do like the theory behind it.

Team Dr.Hee. I take back what I said about BoutPractice. You're the least talented roster so far. But you're also built like a team. A very successful team. True '04 Pistons v Lakers(iirc) in most of your matchups. I'm also not sure you have enough ball handling on your roster.

Team Rizko. Seems like your team lacks creating ability. Not too many people can reliably create their own shot. That said, you have two of the most efficient guys ever, in Durant and KAJ. Solid chemistry strategy too. My biggest question for you is... what do you do if KAJ has an off game? You rely on him a lot.

Team Marchesk. Team definitely lacks spacing. Not shooting, necessarily, but spacing. Thomas, Duncan, Parish, Doc all want to be in the paint, or at least very near it. Kobe, Allen and Peja are really the only players that are most comfortable beyond fifteen feet. Also have minimal post depth. Your starting 2, 3, 4 are so nasty, though. A lot of people consider all 3 of them to be top 12 players ever.

Nice, team comments are fun. Will post mine later. Should rather study for an exam in 2 weeks though. Still 400 book pages to go but f*ck this, fantasy drafts are more important

I'm actually surprised you're mentioning ball handling as an issue for my team. Was rather expecting people might feel like I'd need a true slasher, which I arguably lack. I mean Richmond could throw it down, but he was more of a finesse player in my opinion. And Vinnie was attacking and hitting insane midrange momentum shots all the time, but he's not a true slasher either.

So that's what I expected. Ball handling I thought looks pretty nice though. Kidd doesn't need an explanation. Then I have Richmond (5 apg that year), and Dirk/Hakeem are all time quality ball handlers for their position. Marion plays off the ball mostly anyway and Schrempf is an incredible ball handler for his size and a true point forward. Compared to other teams it's maybe less quality on an individual level, but in a real game situation, I don't expect my team to have problems regarding ball handling.

But an interesting point, didn't really look at it that way while drafting.

[Marchesk]

Team Marchesk. Team definitely lacks spacing. Not shooting, necessarily, but spacing. Thomas, Duncan, Parish, Doc all want to be in the paint, or at least very near it. Kobe, Allen and Peja are really the only players that are most comfortable beyond fifteen feet.

Not sure what else to do. I could change Peja to his prime, start him, and have an older Doc come off the bench. But then I'm losing out on having the nasty 2-3-4 combination.

Team was initially built with Magic in mind. Should have made some extra moves once trading for Kobe.

[dr.hee]

Not sure what else to do. I could change Peja to his prime, start him, and have an older Doc come off the bench. But then I'm losing out on having the nasty 2-3-4 combination.

Team was initially built with Magic in mind. Should have made some extra moves once trading for Kobe.

You could also take rookie Kobe and put him on the bench all the time while starting prime Allen. Still a scary team without Bryant. Looks very balanced to me.

Isiah
Allen
Erving
Duncan
Parish

Cheeks
Peja
Grant


Am I serious? Yes. And no. Whatever

[Marchesk]

Huh, hadn't thought of that. So I traded Magic for rookie Kobe?

But part of this is winning over the hearts and minds of the voters. Will they be more swayed by Kobe-Doc-Duncan, or a team with better spacing?

If Kobe goes to the bench, should probably take a little bit older version of Isiah.

Can I trade Kobe at this point?

[dr.hee]

Huh, hadn't thought of that. So I traded Magic for rookie Kobe?

But part of this is winning over the hearts and minds of the voters. Will they be more swayed by Kobe-Doc-Duncan, or a team with better spacing?

If Kobe goes to the bench, should probably take a little bit later version of Isiah.

Can I trade Kobe at this point?

With the voters in mind, going with prime Kobe is probably a good idea. But even without him, you're easily in the playoffs imo.

[kshutts1]

Not sure what else to do. I could change Peja to his prime, start him, and have an older Doc come off the bench. But then I'm losing out on having the nasty 2-3-4 combination.

Team was initially built with Magic in mind. Should have made some extra moves once trading for Kobe.

That's obviously just my two cents, as it were. After the first team, I tried finding a flaw with everyone.

No team is perfect, and it's about finding and exploiting the flaws. Though that matters more if we did h2h matchups, which we won't, as I understand it.

Edit: And I say voters will be much more swayed by Kobe Doc Duncan than by spacing.
Kind of a pet peeve of mine, actually... how few people take spacing into account when ranking teams. i.e... Magic, Jordan, Doc, Duncan, Shaq is fabulously talented, but how will they operate? Answer me that question then I'll consider it.

That example is not directed at you, btw, just the general populace when creating all time teams.

[kshutts1]

I'm actually surprised you're mentioning ball handling as an issue for my team. Was rather expecting people might feel like I'd need a true slasher, which I arguably lack.

I guess that is more what I meant, actually.

I don't mean creating offense, necessarily, as both Dirk and Hakeem do that well from the post.. but creating shots. That's more what I meant. Other than Kidd, the team just doesn't seem to have a player that can create their own shot reliably, particularly against legit D.
Richmond I'm not super familiar with... I always thought of him as a Rip Hamilton on steroids. So if that analogy is way off, please let me know. Particularly since it seems like he's your "create his own shot on the perimeter" guy.

[dr.hee]

I guess that is more what I meant, actually.

I don't mean creating offense, necessarily, as both Dirk and Hakeem do that well from the post.. but creating shots. That's more what I meant. Other than Kidd, the team just doesn't seem to have a player that can create their own shot reliably, particularly against legit D.
Richmond I'm not super familiar with... I always thought of him as a Rip Hamilton on steroids. So if that analogy is way off, please let me know. Particularly since it seems like he's your "create his own shot on the perimeter" guy.

Richmond war far more skilled offensively than Hamilton. Through his first 10 seasons, he was averaging 23 ppg while shooting 48% from 2 and 39.9% from three while also being better at driving and posting up.

I think if he played today, he'd be criticized for not being "alpha" enough. Put prime Kobe on the crap mid 90s Kings teams, and he would put up 30 ppg no matter what. Richmond didn't have that kind of mentality. Always gave you around 23 ppg on something like 46/40/84. That's great next to other stars on decent teams (Run TMC), but maybe not what you want from a single franchise player. Never was that vocal leader type. But in terms of individual skill he was amazing. Right now, people would argue between him and Harden as the best SG in the league, no doubt.

I mean Jordan had Pippen, Penny had Shaq, Drexler won a ring with Hakeem. Put Richmond next to another star, and he'd get much more recognition.
Instead of Hamilton I'd rather compare him to Ray Allen with a worse 3pt shot but better midrange and post up game. Both were good first options, but not in the prime T-Mac/Kobe tier. Ideal players to lead a team coexisting with one or two other stars though. Calm personalities and great all around skillsets.

There's not a lot of decent footage, but here's some to get an impression
highlight reel
47 points vs Rockets
37 points vs Sonics

So could Richmond create on the perimeter? Yeah. Dude was nasty.

[barkleynash]

Team BarkleyNash. You have Shaq and Chuck, so I don't know if anything else matters... but your defense really concerns me, as does your outside shooting. This is assuming Reggie and Battier don't play heavy minutes, per your rotation "guidelines". Looks like you went the "out run and out score" route... but that works best in a watered-down league, not this uber-stacked one. I question that philosophy.

Some very good points, hope to address a few.

I agree my Defence is a huge concern, I should've had another good defender in the rotation, as it is I only have 2 great ones in PG and Davis, and Battier in limited minutes. (huge mistake drafting Miller over Dumars who would've been a perfect fit next to Magic...DOH!) On the bright side Shaq was pretty active defensively in his Orlando days and as long as he's not going head to head vs Hakeem I'm comfortable with him in any matchup.

My outside shooting is def not a weekness though as magic shot 38% from 3 the year I chose him, Drazen 45%, Pg 36%, Miller 40%, Battier 43%, Penny 35% and even Chuck shot a very good for him 30.5% lol. Obviously my strength is out in the break (why wouldn't you build a team like that if you had Magic) but I'm comfortable with team's half court attack as well with the inside outside game.

As far as our philosophy of "out run and out score" and your concern that running teams off the court only works in watered down leagues and wouldn't in a uber-stacked league like this, well that remains to be seen lol. I think it has more to do with matchups. If they got someone big, strong and fast enough to contain Magic (Pippen/Lebron come to mind) and bigs who can keep up with "Fast" Shaq and Prime Barkley (any 2 of Hakeem, Russell and KG would be my picks) then maybe they can stop them from running up the score. Otherwise they could be in trouble defensively.

[barkleynash]

Huh, hadn't thought of that. So I traded Magic for rookie Kobe?

But part of this is winning over the hearts and minds of the voters. Will they be more swayed by Kobe-Doc-Duncan, or a team with better spacing?

If Kobe goes to the bench, should probably take a little bit older version of Isiah.

Can I trade Kobe at this point?

I'll trade back for Kobe lol, I'll give you Penny Hardaway and Miller for him and a player of your choice ;)

[raiderfan19]

I guess that is more what I meant, actually.

I don't mean creating offense, necessarily, as both Dirk and Hakeem do that well from the post.. but creating shots. That's more what I meant. Other than Kidd, the team just doesn't seem to have a player that can create their own shot reliably, particularly against legit D.
Richmond I'm not super familiar with... I always thought of him as a Rip Hamilton on steroids. So if that analogy is way off, please let me know. Particularly since it seems like he's your "create his own shot on the perimeter" guy.

A team with Hakeem and dirk doesn't have anyone besides Kidd who can create his own shot? Seriously? That team would be the co favorite along with the Kareem/durant team IMO if you could actually make this tournament happen.

[Rizko]

Finally reading breakdowns.

Team Rizko. Seems like your team lacks creating ability. Not too many people can reliably create their own shot. That said, you have two of the most efficient guys ever, in Durant and KAJ. Solid chemistry strategy too. My biggest question for you is... what do you do if KAJ has an off game? You rely on him a .

I disagree with the lack of shot creators. Cp3 is a beast. Kd can ISP with the best of them. Moncrief is one of the best & most underrated sg playmakers ever. A rough comparision is a less athletic, but better scoring version of pippen. He's one of the best all around guards ever, a better playmaker then for instance a ray Allen, I consider him 2 be just about as good as tmac in that regard. Copper was the back up point for show time. He's not a Bowen type whose d&3. If he's trusted enough 2 backup the greatest pg ever and run show time he's good enough 2 be a secondary shot creator IMO. Dumars is a good allaround player himself 2. He can create shots & run plays. He's one of the best combo guards ever IMO.

Basically I only have 1 heavy ball handler but I have 4 other guys who can run the offense but also play off the ball @ the same time. Instead of getting a bunch of ball dominate players who don't know how to do anything without it. Only cp3 is elite @ creating but overall all my guards & swing men can create off the dribble.

As far as Kareem having an off day I'm not really worried because its not really even a common thing but if he does I have 1 of the greatest scorers ever. In kd on the team, plus I have 08 Paul who wasn't as passive as current Paul and would take over games on a regular basis. Plus moncrief and dumars can chip in a few points themselves and McAdoo was putting up 15 a game in just 20 mins. If he played 30 mins he could put up 20 np. If Kareem's off & only puts up. 18ish cp3 runnin pick & rolls off kareem & pick & pops with McAdoo, Dave & kd plus let kd, Sid and cp3 iso I should be fine. Plus once the ball gets into the paint from. P&r drives or post ups I can rotate until it gets 2 the open shooter.

Also my worst defender is either kd, whose above average or McAdoo who idk about defensively along with one of the greatest defensive coaches ever so I can always keep games close based off d alone and just. Have cp3, kd, or kaj close. Those 3 are insanely efficient

[barkleynash]

A team with Hakeem and dirk doesn't have anyone besides Kidd who can create his own shot? Seriously? That team would be the co favorite along with the Kareem/durant team IMO if you could actually make this tournament happen.

I think he means off the bounce without anyone having to get them the ball first. Using you Kareem/Durant examples, KD doesn't need help but Kareem needs a set up man.

Personally I don't think it's a big issue with that Hakeem squad as Richmond is a very underappreciated player who could get his hoops in a variety of ways. Arguably the 3rd best SG of his time behind MJ and Drexler, was just cursed to never have great teammates while in his prime.