David West: "Pacers Have Hit Rock Bottom"

[BlackVVaves]

Yes, me and Rose had had this debate a while back...I think Lance is a better all-around player than Matthews...And Lance is still coming into his own and is still defining his role on the Pacers...If Vogel would take the chains completely off, I think Lance would flourish even more, but he has to improve his bball IQ...

Matthews - 16ppg, 4reb, 2ast, 44% shooting, ts% 59%(very good ts)
Stephenson - 14ppg, 7reb, 5ast, 49% shooting, ts% 56%

Matthews is a better 3pt shooter and onball defender...but Lance is a good on-ball defender too, but not as good as Wesley...Other than that, I feel Lance is better in most other categories...

I think Lance is a better facilitator because of his ball-handle and propensity to drive to the basket. I also think he is the better rebounder. But, his low ball IQ and desire to be flashy rears its ugly head far too many times, resulting in costly turnovers. Which goes back to what you said about Vogel keeping the reigns on Stephenson. I personally wouldn't trust him to play without constraints due to his unpredictable tendencies.

Matthews is the better shooter, better defender, and makes much smarter plays on the court.

I think if you swapped players, both teams would be worse for it. Because of Hill's inability to be a true point guard or facilitate the offense, Stephenson's ball handling is valuable to the Pacers. Conversely, the Blazers thrive with Matthews being able to play off the ball with Lillard and Aldridge as focal points of the offense, while providing great perimeter defense.

It's very close (as the statistics suggest); I just prefer the player that's a known entity. Stephenson crosses over into that JR realm of "WHAT ARE YOU DOING???" too frequently for me (though far, far less this season than previously).

But like I said, they are best suited for the teams that employ them now. And, I will say that Stephenson has the higher ceiling of the two by far.

[BlackVVaves]

Maybe I don't think they would be favoured over any of the top 3 in the west spurs , OKC or Clippers.

This year's Pacers resemble the 2012 Thunder, in that they were constructed a couple years earlier with the primary function of beating the Lakers, but once they got to the Finals, their roster composition (and, to a larger extent rotation) was ill-fit to beat the Heat.

[Dro]

I think Lance is a better facilitator because of his ball-handle and propensity to drive to the basket. I also think he is the better rebounder. But, his low ball IQ and desire to be flashy rears its ugly head far too many times, resulting in costly turnovers. Which goes back to what you said about Vogel keeping the reigns on Stephenson. I personally wouldn't trust him to play without constraints due to his unpredictable tendencies.

Matthews is the better shooter, better defender, and makes much smarter plays on the court.

I think if you swapped players, both teams would be worse for it. Because of Hill's inability to be a true point guard or facilitate the offense, Stephenson's ball handling is valuable to the Pacers. Conversely, the Blazers thrive with Matthews being able to play off the ball with Lillard and Aldridge as focal points of the offense, while providing great perimeter defense.

It's very close (as the statistics suggest); I just prefer the player that's a known entity. Stephenson crosses over into that JR realm of "WHAT ARE YOU DOING???" too frequently for me (though far, far less this season than previously).

But like I said, they are best suited for the teams that employ them now. And, I will say that Stephenson has the higher ceiling of the two by far.

I agree with pretty much everything you said....But I don't think Lance is like JR at all...Jr has horrible shot selection and doesn't seem to be a team-first player where I feel Lance is the opposite..He enjoys getting teammates involved....Lance actually has pretty good shot selection which I think is reflected in his fg% because he drives or shots jumpshots at a pretty equal rate...Lance at times would rather pass and sometimes he passes up good shots trying to make a nice pass...I just think he needs more time in his role and he'll be fine...He's still pretty new to all this...He hasn't even been an integral part of an NBA team until last season.

[BlackVVaves]

I agree with pretty much everything you said....But I don't think Lance is like JR at all...Jr has horrible shot selection and doesn't seem to be a team-first player where I feel Lance is the opposite..He enjoys getting teammates involved....Lance actually has pretty good shot selection which I think is reflected in his fg% because he drives or shots jumpshots at a pretty equal rate...Lance at times would rather pass and sometimes he passes up good shots trying to make a nice pass...I just think he needs more time in his role and he'll be fine...He's still pretty new to all this...He hasn't even been an integral part of an NBA team until last season.

You're right, I was just emphasizing and comparing the general erratic nature of JR and Stephenson. But yeah, Stephenson is a much more reliable team player, and is just better than JR period.

Give me this season of Lance over all but maybe 2 seasons of JR's entire career. Dude is an unreliable cancer.

[Dro]

You're right, I was just emphasizing and comparing the general erratic nature of JR and Stephenson. But yeah, Stephenson is a much more reliable team player, and is just better than JR period.

Give me this season of Lance over all but maybe 2 seasons of JR's entire career. Dude is an unreliable cancer.

Yeah, I'm with you on the erratic...I look at Lance sometimes like wtf but instead of it being a dumb shot, it'll be some circus layup

[BlackVVaves]

Yeah, I'm with you on the erratic...I look at Lance sometimes like wtf but instead of it being a dumb shot, it'll be some circus layup

He's quite the character on the court

[CJ Mustard]

[jbryan1984]

When it comes down to it, all of these guys are pros. Any team can win on any given night. Its end of the season, Pacers pretty much have first seed locked. Cavs are hungry fighting for last seed. This is nothing new in the NBA, happens every year.

[bagelred]

Rock Bottom indeed.

[D-FENS]

[D-FENS]

Rock Bottom indeed.

Dammit, I should have looked at page 3 before posting. bagelred, you're just too quick

[sketchy]

This year's Pacers resemble the 2012 Thunder, in that they were constructed a couple years earlier with the primary function of beating the Lakers, but once they got to the Finals, their roster composition (and, to a larger extent rotation) was ill-fit to beat the Heat.

^^This is a pretty good point actually.