Where do the Pistons of late 80's early 90's rank in NBA History

[steve]

You mean like how Duncan went down before the '00 playoffs (and the Spurs going 3-1 against the Lakers in the regular season)?

1. The '89 Lakers had trouble with the Pistons even with a completely healthy roster.

2. Dumars was just destroying Magic in the series before Magic got hurt. It was unlikely that would have changed even with a healthy Scott (which would have resulted in the Lakers rejiggering their line-up which would have benefited the Pistons more).

[97 bulls]

You mean like how Duncan went down before the '00 playoffs (and the Spurs going 3-1 against the Lakers in the regular season)?

1. The '89 Lakers had trouble with the Pistons even with a completely healthy roster.

2. Dumars was just destroying Magic in the series before Magic got hurt. It was unlikely that would have changed even with a healthy Scott (which would have resulted in the Lakers rejiggering their line-up which would have benefited the Pistons more).

Its funny how Laker fans always dismiss their teams losses to injuries. But refuse to acknowledge that every time they won, a key player to the opposition was inured or missing as well.

[Helix]

Something to keep in mind when looking at this: The Pistons beat the Lakers in the regular season twice in very similar games to the ones they played in the Finals (in fairness, Magic was out during the second game but it was also before the Pistons acquired Aguirre). Also, after inserting Aguirre into the starting line-up (this is after 4 games with the Pistons), the Pistons went 28-4 for the rest of the regular season and 39-6 including the playoff before they made the Finals. Again, the Lakers obviously would've taken a game or two but this Pistons team was just a match up problem across the board for the Lakers.

Just so you know, I think a lot of what you're saying is spot on. I'm not at all saying that with a healthy Scott and Magic the Lakers win. What I am saying is that with Scott and Magic healthy and playing, the Lakers certainly would have had a better chance to have won the series. I don't rule out the "possibility" that they might have, although I DO think it would have been an uphill battle for them.

[Bodhi]

You mean like how Duncan went down before the '00 playoffs (and the Spurs going 3-1 against the Lakers in the regular season)?

1. The '89 Lakers had trouble with the Pistons even with a completely healthy roster.

2. Dumars was just destroying Magic in the series before Magic got hurt. It was unlikely that would have changed even with a healthy Scott (which would have resulted in the Lakers rejiggering their line-up which would have benefited the Pistons more).

And how many times have we seen the regular season not matter at all in the playoffs?

Best case scenario for the Spurs in 2000 is that they learn how badly Shaq crushes Duncan/D-Rob a year early

[steve]

And how many times have we seen the regular season not matter at all in the playoffs?

Best case scenario for the Spurs in 2000 is that they learn how badly Shaq crushes Duncan/D-Rob a year early

Well, the Spurs were worse against the Lakers in '01. Duncan put up 23/12/4 in that series to Shaq's 27/13/2.5, not to mention the Spurs essentially lost their third best player in the series before. So I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here?

The point is we were work with information we have on hand and there's enough evidence present that signals the '89 Lakers had a lot of trouble with the Pistons (this doesn't even bring up how much trouble they had with them the season before, which required a Thomas injury and a phantom foul to pull out the series).

[ThePhantomCreep]

This is an interesting fact that gets glossed over in history. Isiah clearly gets tripped on the final play by Magic, but no foul. Definitely should have been a three peat and maybe 4 Finals in a row if Isiah didn't have the mental fart pass to Bird.

Truly one of the, if not the greatest team in NBA history. Changed a culture.

The Pistons were down three when Isiah was fouled, one second left. Isiah would have to miss intentionally on his second FT and hope for a miracle tip in at the buzzer to tie the game. Not going to happen.

Also, I don't get the crying over Laimbeer's obvious foul on Kareem. You can't bump someone mid-air while they're in the act of shooting. Thats a foul every time.

[ThePhantomCreep]

It wouldn't have been a sweep but I'd imagine the Pistons win in 6 in somewhat convincing fashion. You're right losing Scott before the series was a big hit and losing Magic essentially in game 2 was something they couldn't recover from but the Pistons were also doing things that were giving the Lakers fits and would've continued to do so. Even before Magic got hurt, he wasn't exactly having a good start to the series (and it's likely he would've recovered to an extent) but the Pistons were also pretty relentless in attacking Magic on offense and Dumars had jumped up enough a level that he would have just kept destroying Magic off the bounce all series. This would have forced the Lakers to rejigger their line-up to a certain extent but at the end, it wouldn't have hurt the Pistons. They would've ended up playing Rodman at the 4 (in theory having Magic guard him, which would've been something of a nightmare for how good Rodman was cutting off the ball at that point in his career). It also would have allowed Daly to play Thomas, Johnson, and Dumar together at certain points. The way that Pistons team was constructed (especially with a face up threat like Aguirre instead of a post threat like Dantley) was just a match up nightmare for the Lakers. It just would've been one of those series where a team like the Lakers would've kept searching for an answer and trying to play catch up with the Piston, which is just death when playing against a coach like Daly (who had no issues playing odd ball line-ups).

Agreed with the '67 Sixers. I don't think people quite fathom how bonkers that team was. Having a player like Billy Cunningham (who even at that point in his early career was an All-NBA talent) come off the bench, is something that just can't be quantified and his ability to spell just about anyone in their starting five.

Games 2, 3, and 4 were nip and tuck until well into the 4th quarter. Games 2 and 3 came down to the final possessions. That was without Magic and Scott. The Lakers starting backcourt would have made a huge difference in that series. The Pistons were not nearly as invincible as you're making them out to be, and Worthy's unstoppable attack would have been even more unstoppable with a full Lakers lineup.

[Bodhi]

Well, the Spurs were worse against the Lakers in '01. Duncan put up 23/12/4 in that series to Shaq's 27/13/2.5, not to mention the Spurs essentially lost their third best player in the series before. So I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here?

The point is we were work with information we have on hand and there's enough evidence present that signals the '89 Lakers had a lot of trouble with the Pistons (this doesn't even bring up how much trouble they had with them the season before, which required a Thomas injury and a phantom foul to pull out the series).

This I don't get. There was contact and it could have gone either way. But I hear Celtics fans (especially Simmons) complain constantly about all the cheap shots the Pistons took and how they tried to step on McHale's foot and hurt Bird's back in the 88 series

Are you really shocked that the refs might error ever so slightly on the side of caution against the dirtiest team in league history?

[Bodhi]

And it was a 7 game series

Sorry but if all your hopes came down to getting a favorable call in game 6 then you weren't the better team

You can ask the Spurs all about that

[nycelt84]

No legacy. If Magic doesn't get hurt in 89 they're another one and done team

Do people talk about the 04 pistons as some era defining team? Because that's the bad boys pistons if not for a timely Magic injury

Considering that the refs screwed them out of a title in '88 with the worst call in playoff history, there legacy is not where it should be because they should have won 3 straight.