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Old 03-28-2014, 02:35 AM   #121
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Default Re: ☆ Lakers Open Court ☆

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Originally Posted by tamaraw08
You mentioned Riley and the big 3, like I said, superstars would take a few million dollar pay cut but I don't see the taking more than 5 mil(which btw Kobe already gave a discount compare from his last contract) IMO. Of course there are exceptions...
I think you are underestimating the intelligence of Kobe, that he's aware how salary cap works, how every team can't simply sign any great free agents once they acquire very expensive players, its just that these players still value the mighty dollar just like what Nash said last week.

I don't disagree with that but I think it's a bit different because the big three had a few million paycut but because that was considered a discount compared to their last contracts because in a way they still had that market value, LeBron took what was it 16 million a year? He could have been offered 20-25 or so, it's a fair bit to take less but the market value would have justified teams paying far more, Kobe's market value isn't quite the same anymore, it's a pretty big paycut for someone like Kobe to take what was it this year 30 million down to if he were to accept it 10-15 but really had the Lakers let him hit open market then that's probably what he'd see he'd get anyway so it is a discount from his previous contract a big one but it's really just what his market value is (that's my take on that hopefully that's somewhat decent reasoning I just don't see it as much as a discount because really his market value is not what any of the big three could have got from other teams, not so much a discount in terms of market value just compared to his last contract which that amount isn't exactly justified now if you were to offer him a similar contract it's not worth it if you look at the risks and his market value if you let him be a FA)

Maybe the big three and other players has affected the view that players will take paycuts to win titles, maybe few players actually are like that maybe it's an idealistic view I have that players would take a few million or more less to help a team build a contender/have money to do so at the least, I'm not sure if this was kind of addressing my post as well or just DK's? But I certainly wouldn't be underestimating Kobe's intelligent, he seems from what I can see a pretty intelligent person, he's rather enigmatic and hard to read so I can't say for sure but his IQ I think would be above average 120 - 130 range probably he certainly isn't stupid, I can be a little idealistic and a pessimist but if I'm Kobe if I can be making 10 million about 6 I assume with taxes after all I've made having just made close to 60 million off my last contract I wouldn't be too annoyed I'd be happy to take less given I'm still making heaps from advertising outside of basketball knowing it's a big market and the Lakers if I take less (show I'm dedicated to building a contender>money) then they've probably got more chance than other teams due to still having a lot of cap space and an attractive market (sorry that was first person if I was Kobe/using my mindset haha)
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:10 AM   #122
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Default Re: ☆ Lakers Open Court ☆

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Originally Posted by Lakers91
I don't disagree with that but I think it's a bit different because the big three had a few million paycut but because that was considered a discount compared to their last contracts because in a way they still had that market value, LeBron took what was it 16 million a year? He could have been offered 20-25 or so, it's a fair bit to take less but the market value would have justified teams paying far more, Kobe's market value isn't quite the same anymore, it's a pretty big paycut for someone like Kobe to take what was it this year 30 million down to if he were to accept it 10-15 but really had the Lakers let him hit open market then that's probably what he'd see he'd get anyway so it is a discount from his previous contract a big one but it's really just what his market value is (that's my take on that hopefully that's somewhat decent reasoning I just don't see it as much as a discount because really his market value is not what any of the big three could have got from other teams, not so much a discount in terms of market value just compared to his last contract which that amount isn't exactly justified now if you were to offer him a similar contract it's not worth it if you look at the risks and his market value if you let him be a FA)

Maybe the big three and other players has affected the view that players will take paycuts to win titles, maybe few players actually are like that maybe it's an idealistic view I have that players would take a few million or more less to help a team build a contender/have money to do so at the least, I'm not sure if this was kind of addressing my post as well or just DK's? But I certainly wouldn't be underestimating Kobe's intelligent, he seems from what I can see a pretty intelligent person, he's rather enigmatic and hard to read so I can't say for sure but his IQ I think would be above average 120 - 130 range probably he certainly isn't stupid, I can be a little idealistic and a pessimist but if I'm Kobe if I can be making 10 million about 6 I assume with taxes after all I've made having just made close to 60 million off my last contract I wouldn't be too annoyed I'd be happy to take less given I'm still making heaps from advertising outside of basketball knowing it's a big market and the Lakers if I take less (show I'm dedicated to building a contender>money) then they've probably got more chance than other teams due to still having a lot of cap space and an attractive market (sorry that was first person if I was Kobe/using my mindset haha)
First of all, let me just say again that I too wouldn’t pay Kobe more than 15 mil/year, maybe more if he’ll agree with a 1 yr contract.
But I truly believe too Kobe’s main priority is to feel valued and loved and that he wants to get paid top dollar from his past and future contributions to the team (including the tv deal).
We are all from the outside looking in and it’s my theory that over the years that Mitch has gained a lot of respect from Kobe. That he is also convinced that Kupchak can find ways to make this team competitive inspite of Kobe’s enomous contract.
Back in 2006, Kobe was heard on radio that he’ll rather play in Pluto than come back to the Lakers. When Buss tried to oblige to that trade request, demanded Luol Deng in return, Kobe said NO!, as in Kobe is not crazy to go to a team without legit stars. Kobe was also caught on video making fun of Bynum, saying he wanted him traded for the aging Kidd. Mitch didn’t and saw how Andrew developed and that same time drafted that very overweight and raw Marc Gasol,
Kupchak then managed to trade the very limited Kwame along with Marc for an allstar center in Pau. He also traded for Ariza and together with Kobe went to the finals in 2008 and 2009.
He then let Ariza go and acquire Metta who was very instrumental in their quest 2 years later. How many GMs actually can trade that much damaged Bynum for the best center in the league? If not for the self Proclaimed god/commissioner, Mitch could have flipped Marc to Pau into Chris Paul.
so when Kobe said "Its not my problem" I think he also meant that Mitch can figure things out
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:26 AM   #123
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Default Re: ☆ Lakers Open Court ☆

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamaraw08
First of all, let me just say again that I too wouldn’t pay Kobe more than 15 mil/year, maybe more if he’ll agree with a 1 yr contract.
But I truly believe too Kobe’s main priority is to feel valued and loved and that he wants to get paid top dollar from his past and future contributions to the team (including the tv deal).
We are all from the outside looking in and it’s my theory that over the years that Mitch has gained a lot of respect from Kobe. That he is also convinced that Kupchak can find ways to make this team competitive inspite of Kobe’s enomous contract.
Back in 2006, Kobe was heard on radio that he’ll rather play in Pluto than come back to the Lakers. When Buss tried to oblige to that trade request, demanded Luol Deng in return, Kobe said NO!, as in Kobe is not crazy to go to a team without legit stars. Kobe was also caught on video making fun of Bynum, saying he wanted him traded for the aging Kidd. Mitch didn’t and saw how Andrew developed and that same time drafted that very overweight and raw Marc Gasol,
Kupchak then managed to trade the very limited Kwame along with Marc for an allstar center in Pau. He also traded for Ariza and together with Kobe went to the finals in 2008 and 2009.
He then let Ariza go and acquire Metta who was very instrumental in their quest 2 years later. How many GMs actually can trade that much damaged Bynum for the best center in the league? If not for the self Proclaimed god/commissioner, Mitch could have flipped Marc to Pau into Chris Paul.
so when Kobe said "Its not my problem" I think he also meant that Mitch can figure things out

I'm not disagreeing with you it all does come down to perception, everyone is on the outside looking in afterall (as far as I know). I would probably agree with that, I think it's clear at least to me that he does want to feel valued, I think that can be reflected in some of his comments that he does want to still feel valued or still be treated as a superstar/given the respect he has earned type thing or some recognition for what he thinks all he has done for the franchise and it's his just payment. I was only 12/13 back in 2006 so I can't directly remember the radio comments hah, if required I can look them up I do remember reading about Kobe wanting Bynum traded for Kidd though can remember reading about that a few years ago, I'm certainly not doubting that he respects Kupchak I think he definitely does respect him, I just don't think Kupchak is someone that would be a big enough in terms of either reputation or charisma to be the person I'd pick to convince Kobe of a smaller contract, I'm not saying he's a bad GM but he's just not who I'd think would be able to try it, Kobe respects him but I don't think he'd be able to convince Kobe to take 10-15+ million less, Mitch has been very good at instrumenting trades and working out deals, I don't deny he's a good GM I never would, just seems a bit lacking in passion/charisma I suppose which may sound rather harsh but he seems to be more the backroom figure than someone like Riley over in Miami who just exudes charisma to me anyway just an aura, Bynum going and getting Howard had Bynum lived up to potential wouldn't have been that bad because Philly thought they were getting the second best center in the NBA it looked terrible for the Magic at the time but looking back now they got the best out of it, if the 3 players who swapped places in that trade or the big three who did in Iggy, Bynum and Howard been healthy and re-signed it would have been great for all 3 teams really was just good for the Magic in the end but it was a very good trade at the time and the Paul trade especially was great, whether it was right place right time or great management/acquiring of assets I think the front office deserves credit for that aspect and Mitch certainly.
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Old 03-31-2014, 08:36 AM   #124
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Default Re: ☆ Lakers Open Court ☆

why are we still winning? i'd be happy if we lose the remaining games on an average of 5 pts
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Old 03-31-2014, 12:01 PM   #125
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Default Re: ☆ Lakers Open Court ☆

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamaraw08
First of all, let me just say again that I too wouldn’t pay Kobe more than 15 mil/year, maybe more if he’ll agree with a 1 yr contract.
But I truly believe too Kobe’s main priority is to feel valued and loved and that he wants to get paid top dollar from his past and future contributions to the team (including the tv deal).
We are all from the outside looking in and it’s my theory that over the years that Mitch has gained a lot of respect from Kobe. That he is also convinced that Kupchak can find ways to make this team competitive inspite of Kobe’s enomous contract.
Back in 2006, Kobe was heard on radio that he’ll rather play in Pluto than come back to the Lakers. When Buss tried to oblige to that trade request, demanded Luol Deng in return, Kobe said NO!, as in Kobe is not crazy to go to a team without legit stars. Kobe was also caught on video making fun of Bynum, saying he wanted him traded for the aging Kidd. Mitch didn’t and saw how Andrew developed and that same time drafted that very overweight and raw Marc Gasol,
Kupchak then managed to trade the very limited Kwame along with Marc for an allstar center in Pau. He also traded for Ariza and together with Kobe went to the finals in 2008 and 2009.
He then let Ariza go and acquire Metta who was very instrumental in their quest 2 years later. How many GMs actually can trade that much damaged Bynum for the best center in the league? If not for the self Proclaimed god/commissioner, Mitch could have flipped Marc to Pau into Chris Paul.
so when Kobe said "Its not my problem" I think he also meant that Mitch can figure things out

Do you think Kobe would have left the Lakers if they stood absolutely firm at $12 million per year given the options that would have been available following this season?
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Old 03-31-2014, 04:36 PM   #126
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Default Re: ☆ Lakers Open Court ☆

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Do you think Kobe would have left the Lakers if they stood absolutely firm at $12 million per year given the options that would have been available following this season?
I know you already said you don’t think the contract has nothing to do with past accomplishments and the lucrative TV deal so lets agree to disagree.
I see Kobe trying to be patient by that 12 Mil offer for a couple of days, then will wreak havoc on Jim Buss, spewing fire and venom and reminding him that he was the main reason why they won 5 rings and that there’s no way they will get a 2 Billion deal from Time Warner if it weren’t for him. There’s going to be insults hurled and challenging Jimmy about his little accomplishments, Kobe will gather ALL the reporters close to him and portray the Buss’ children as ingrates, with extensive research on the overall value of Kobe to the team, How he fills those expensive luxury suites by his presence, Some season pass holders will be irate and demand the owners to give him more $ or else they will all bolt out. If Buss don’t cave in, Kobe eventually stays but will make sure they get what they “deserve” as in he’ll be disinterested, take his sweet time to recover and just collect his paycheck. Just like any other employee who feels they deserve more money.
The team will get a huge backlash on how don’t treat their superstars with proper respect and future superstar Free agents will have second thoughts in signing with the Lakers. How other ex All-stars like Pippen, Billups went back and still get paid more than they deserve bec their former team wanted to say “thank you”. But not the Lakers!!!.
Props to you too for staying classy eventho we have a difference of opinion.
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Old 03-31-2014, 06:17 PM   #127
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Default Re: ☆ Lakers Open Court ☆

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Originally Posted by tamaraw08
I know you already said you don’t think the contract has nothing to do with past accomplishments and the lucrative TV deal so lets agree to disagree.
I see Kobe trying to be patient by that 12 Mil offer for a couple of days, then will wreak havoc on Jim Buss, spewing fire and venom and reminding him that he was the main reason why they won 5 rings and that there’s no way they will get a 2 Billion deal from Time Warner if it weren’t for him. There’s going to be insults hurled and challenging Jimmy about his little accomplishments, Kobe will gather ALL the reporters close to him and portray the Buss’ children as ingrates, with extensive research on the overall value of Kobe to the team, How he fills those expensive luxury suites by his presence, Some season pass holders will be irate and demand the owners to give him more $ or else they will all bolt out. If Buss don’t cave in, Kobe eventually stays but will make sure they get what they “deserve” as in he’ll be disinterested, take his sweet time to recover and just collect his paycheck. Just like any other employee who feels they deserve more money.
The team will get a huge backlash on how don’t treat their superstars with proper respect and future superstar Free agents will have second thoughts in signing with the Lakers. How other ex All-stars like Pippen, Billups went back and still get paid more than they deserve bec their former team wanted to say “thank you”. But not the Lakers!!!.
Props to you too for staying classy eventho we have a difference of opinion.

Thanks

I can see a bit of what you're saying for sure however in order to keep a team at the top you have to be willing to make very tough decisions on how long to keep an aging superstar. Because....I'm so freaking old, I can tell you how angry I was when they let Gail Goodrich walk over money.....but that is exactly how they got the pick that became Magic Johnson.
Face it, Kobe at the money he's being paid and diminished ability is not going to lead this team to any more titles. Tim Duncan makes 10 million......this is where Kobe should live (Money wise). Tony Parker makes $12.5 million
For the money Kobe is paid we'd have a better chance of winning a title without him. Free agents who wouldn't want to come here if we didn't overpay Kobe Opposite....guys can see how his contract will be an issue in putting a championship team together. If we gutted the entire team and didn't have a single player, we could easily put a championship roster together quickly in a year or two, we would be a prime destination, clean slate with a winning tradition. We are L.A.

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Old 03-31-2014, 11:20 PM   #128
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Default Re: ☆ Lakers Open Court ☆

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why are we still winning? i'd be happy if we lose the remaining games on an average of 5 pts

They need to give Sacre something to cheer for
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Old 04-01-2014, 08:56 AM   #129
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Default Re: ☆ Lakers Open Court ☆

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Originally Posted by DKLaker
Thanks

I can see a bit of what you're saying for sure however in order to keep a team at the top you have to be willing to make very tough decisions on how long to keep an aging superstar. Because....I'm so freaking old, I can tell you how angry I was when they let Gail Goodrich walk over money.....but that is exactly how they got the pick that became Magic Johnson.
Face it, Kobe at the money he's being paid and diminished ability is not going to lead this team to any more titles. Tim Duncan makes 10 million......this is where Kobe should live (Money wise). Tony Parker makes $12.5 million
For the money Kobe is paid we'd have a better chance of winning a title without him. Free agents who wouldn't want to come here if we didn't overpay Kobe Opposite....guys can see how his contract will be an issue in putting a championship team together. If we gutted the entire team and didn't have a single player, we could easily put a championship roster together quickly in a year or two, we would be a prime destination, clean slate with a winning tradition. We are L.A.
You probably won't believe this but I am so in agreement about what you are saying here esp when you bring up Duncan's and Parker's name. I felt the last 5 years, Kobe was overpaid. But Kobe and his supporters, esp those who know more about economics will argue that we are comparing apples and oranges in terms of true value, as in Tim and Tony don't fill up luxury seats. Their boring and meek personalities makes everyone yawn and nobody talks about them nor nobody buys their products, that you'll probably sell more of Kobe's used toilet paper than Duncan's shirt etc.That the Lakers belonging in the 2nd largest market can afford to overpay players.
Going back to your point about the Spurs tho, they will argue that eventho the two agree to a paycut, they are still over the cap and that their team STILL can't acquire a very good free agent.

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Old 04-02-2014, 01:36 AM   #130
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No need for that in here.
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Old 04-02-2014, 05:07 AM   #131
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Default Re: ☆ Lakers Open Court ☆

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No need for that in here.

Haha, enough Laker hating on the main board without here too?
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Old 04-02-2014, 11:48 AM   #132
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Default Re: ☆ Lakers Open Court ☆

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You probably won't believe this but I am so in agreement about what you are saying here esp when you bring up Duncan's and Parker's name. I felt the last 5 years, Kobe was overpaid. But Kobe and his supporters, esp those who know more about economics will argue that we are comparing apples and oranges in terms of true value, as in Tim and Tony don't fill up luxury seats. Their boring and meek personalities makes everyone yawn and nobody talks about them nor nobody buys their products, that you'll probably sell more of Kobe's used toilet paper than Duncan's shirt etc.That the Lakers belonging in the 2nd largest market can afford to overpay players.
Going back to your point about the Spurs tho, they will argue that eventho the two agree to a paycut, they are still over the cap and that their team STILL can't acquire a very good free agent.

The Spurs NEVER try to acquire a big free agent, they don't need to.
They spend their money wisely and don't overpay.
Their payroll is at $63 mil while ours is at $77 mil and they are smart enough to keep a great coach running the show, not hire idiots.

At this point in their careers I take Parker + Duncan over Kobe

If you follow football, the NFL version is the New England Patriots, other than Tom Brady, they don't pay anyone, they let great players go all the time and replace with lower cost options yet they keep on winning because what really drives the whole machine is the coach and 1 critical star.
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:04 PM   #133
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Default Re: ☆ Lakers Open Court ☆

What are the other teams that you guys root for?

For me, it's the: Spurs.

Why the Spurs? For old time's sake, man. I hated that team with a passion before. But seeing Tim Duncan playing out there reminds me of the old days (2000s) between the Lakers & the Spurs. It's just an indescribable feeling, you know? But it's just nostalgia, I guess.

I'm just really going through a phase right now & it's so painful to see all these players that I grew up watching; retire. AI, TMAC, Duncan, Manu, etc.,

I'm pretty sure you'll understand that DK, I'm pretty sure you had your moments even if when George Mikan retired. jk

I will forever miss & cherish those days.
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:05 PM   #134
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Default Re: ☆ Lakers Open Court ☆

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Haha, enough Laker hating on the main board without here too?
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:10 PM   #135
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Default Re: ☆ Lakers Open Court ☆

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What are the other teams that you guys root for?

For me, it's the: Spurs.

Why the Spurs? For old time's sake, man. I hated that team with a passion before. But seeing Tim Duncan playing out there reminds me of the old days (2000s) between the Lakers & the Spurs. It's just an indescribable feeling, you know? But it's just nostalgia, I guess.

I'm just really going through a phase right now & it's so painful to see all these players that I grew up watching; retire. AI, TMAC, Duncan, Manu, etc.,

I'm pretty sure you'll understand that DK, I'm pretty sure you had your moments even if when George Mikan retired. jk

I will forever miss & cherish those days.

I've kind of always had one main team in the Lakers but then in school everyone basically had an East and a West team so I kind of have an East and West team I've always liked Washington I guess they are my East team I think they have potential with Wall just a pity I hate the name the Wizards , in the West I guess my other team would be Houston because of Hakeem Olajuwon (partly why I wasn't that annoyed Dwight went there because they are my second West team) I've just always liked to see them win because well my favorite player of all time used to play for them, I cheer for the Warriors because of Curry and they are so entertaining when their shots fall but that's more recent, I like a lot of teams actually but I guess the only teams I really root for apart from the Lakers would be Houston and Washington and maybe New Orleans (have friends from there who are diehard New Orleans fans of basically any sport their teams are in so I like to see any New Orleans team win on their behalf haha).

Nostalgia indeed, grew up as a kid watching those players it is saddening to see them retiring or preparing to about to retire but unfortunately time goes on, one thing our bodies can't defy is time (assuming you believe it's not an illusion )
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