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Old 03-19-2013, 10:19 PM   #106
Djahjaga
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Quote:
Originally Posted by DatAsh
So a center that makes the average team worse at rebounding is better than a guard who improve's the average team's rebounding?

Is the purpose of a great rebounder to put up good stats or is it to help his team?

Having an above average rebounding PG is only worth it if you have at least average rebounding at every other position. The problem is, having a great rebounding PG doesn't say anything about the rebounding of the rest of the players on your team. You can have the best rebounding PG of all time, but if you have anemic rebounders at every other position, it won't make you a good rebounding team.

Good rebounding guards are such a commodity because even average rebounding bigs can be relied upon to grab like 7 boards, so this offers you a huge advantage, assuming you can get average rebounding bigs. You're definitely right on this point. Practically, you would want someone like Rondo over a 7-boards-per-game big because you can just sign an average center to grab 7 boards, but you won't find a guard like Rondo on the waiver wire.

But that's not the argument we're having. We're asking, is a below average rebounding big more impactful on the boards than an above average rebounding small?

If you make no other assumptions about the rest of the team, the big is more impactful on the boards.

Yeah, sure, maybe Rondo has more talent for boarding than Lopez does, and the only reason Brook gets more boards is because he's a foot taller, but the fact remains that he gets more boards. It doesn't matter why. You said it well in your other post, "such is life."




Anyway, the original point stemmed from Kennethgriffin's continuous "this is more impressive, so it's better" argument. Bigs are almost always more impactful on D than smalls. Yes, they have a huge, unfair advantage. Yes, I'm frankly way more impressed when someone like MJ or GP or Bowen can dominate a game defensively than when Roy Hibbert or even Mutombo do it. But that doesn't make them better defenders than the bigs (though, I'm not sure MJ and GP aren't better than Hibbert lol I'm just saying, more impressive doesn't necessarily mean better/more impactful).
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:57 PM   #107
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

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Originally Posted by pauk
Lebron is a soon 7 x 1st all-defensive team player who was a runner-up for defensive player of the year and in talks for that award ever since, a guy who last year had the most 1st all-defensive team votes (even more than the guy who won the DPOY that year).... a guy who defends PG-SG-SF-PF-C like nobody else could, his defensive versatility can only be matched by Scottie Pippen in NBA history...... speaking of Pippen, he said that Lebron is the best defensive player in the NBA.... im sure what is the best defensive perimeter guy i ever seen knows slightly what he is talking about better than at least you?

No, the only one that needs to be laughed at is yourself dh11414444343439434989849888

why you neg me?
I'm only simply stating something that is potentially laughable, his defense is slightly overrated. especially that part about him defending every position...
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:14 AM   #108
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

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Originally Posted by dh144498
why you neg me?
I'm only simply stating something that is potentially laughable, his defense is slightly overrated. especially that part about him defending every position...

negged.
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Old 03-17-2014, 03:43 PM   #109
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

I'm skipping Wilt and Russell so I can give more players shine for once.
1. Olajuwon
2. David Robinson
3. Gary Payton
4. Scottie Pippen
5. Tim Duncan
6. Patrick Ewing
7. Ben Wallace
8. Dennis Rodman
9. Michael Jordan
10. Dikembe Mutumbo

HM: Dwight Howard, Prime Kobe, Mark Eaton, Metta World Peace, Kevin Garnett, S. Moncrief, McHale, Prime Shaq,Kareem, Bruce Bowen, Marcus Camby.
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Old 05-23-2016, 01:57 PM   #110
feyki
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

1 - Bill Russell
2 - Ben Wallace
3 - Nate Thurmond
4 - Hakeem Olajuwon
5 - Tim Duncan
6 - Bill Walton
7 - Wilt Chamberlain
8 - David Robinson
9 - Dwight Howard
10 - Patrick Ewing
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Old 05-23-2016, 02:00 PM   #111
ImKobe
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Kobe
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Old 05-23-2016, 02:51 PM   #112
HoopSuperstar
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Dennis Rodman. Not to many nba players took on the challenge on guarding Shaq and having success add it. Playing defense for almost all 48min.

Last edited by HoopSuperstar : 05-23-2016 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 05-23-2016, 03:04 PM   #113
wally_world
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

1. Bill Russell
2. Dennis Rodman
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Gary Payton
5. Ben Wallace
6. Kevin Garnett
7. Tim Duncan
8. Mookie Blaylock
9. Bill Walton
10. Scottie Pippen

next in line:
Kawhi Leonard
Kareem Abdul Jabbar

I think perimeter defense is greatly underrated. It's easy for big guys to send shots back and tower over people, how GP and Blaylock lock down and hound ball-handlers are the best i've seen, so special mention to them.

wtf is Moses doing on that list?
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Old 05-23-2016, 03:17 PM   #114
feyki
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Quote:
Originally Posted by wally_world
1. Bill Russell
2. Dennis Rodman
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Gary Payton
5. Ben Wallace
6. Kevin Garnett
7. Tim Duncan
8. Mookie Blaylock
9. Bill Walton
10. Scottie Pippen

next in line:
Kawhi Leonard
Kareem Abdul Jabbar

I think perimeter defense is greatly underrated. It's easy for big guys to send shots back and tower over people, how GP and Blaylock lock down and hound ball-handlers are the best i've seen, so special mention to them.

wtf is Moses doing on that list?

Your point like thinking Centers underrated on passing/playmaking . It's nature of the game , bigs always has more impact on defensive side . Rim protection is main reason of that .
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Old 05-23-2016, 03:21 PM   #115
wally_world
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Quote:
Originally Posted by feyki
Your point like thinking Centers underrated on passing/playmaking . It's nature of the game , bigs always has more impact on defensive side . Rim protection is main reason of that .

They do have bigger impact on the defensive end, but that doesn't mean they're the better defender ;) which is why i have a few guards/wings in there
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Old 05-23-2016, 03:26 PM   #116
feyki
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Quote:
Originally Posted by wally_world
They do have bigger impact on the defensive end, but that doesn't mean they're the better defender ;) which is why i have a few guards/wings in there

I agree with that . Gary Payton,Pippen,Rodman were one of the greatest man to man defenders .

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Old 05-23-2016, 04:27 PM   #117
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Quote:
Originally Posted by L.Kizzle
Shawn Marion should at least be on the short list.


but my top ten would be:

by position, it's too hard just doing a ten. I can narrow it to ten latter.


Center
1 Bill Russell
2 Wilt Chamberlain
3 Nate Thurmond
4 Hakeem Olajuwon
5 Dikembe Mutombo
6 Lew Alcindor
7 Bill Walton
8 Ben Wallace
9 David Robinson
10 Alonzo Mourning



Forward
1 Dennis Rodman
2 Scottie Pippen
3 Kevin Garnett
4 Tim Duncan
5 Gus Johnson
6 Dave Debusschere
7 Michael Cooper
8 Ron Artest
9 Bobby Jones
10 Maurice Lucas


Guards
1 Walt Frazier
2 Sidney Moncrief
3 Gary Payton
4 Dennis Johnson
5 Michael Jordan
6 Norm Van Lier
7 Joe Dumars
8 K.C. Jones
9 Jerry West
10 Jason Kidd

This is a really good list. I would put the Big O on ahead of Jason Kidd.
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