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Old 03-18-2013, 11:08 PM   #136
Whoah10115
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Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

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Originally Posted by Round Mound
Bird was the Better Shooter, Passer, Creator, Team Defender, Clutcher, More Savy and More Intanglibles

Duncan was the Better Post Player, Rebounder, Rim Protector and 1 on 1 Defender.

IŽd Take 1979-86 Bird over Duncan

Duncan in the 80s and Early 90s Would Have Played Center and Had Zero Rings


Duncan is a better team defender than Bird.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:17 PM   #137
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Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

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Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Duncan is a better team defender than Bird.

Nope Duncan is a Better Rim Protector, Shot Blocker and 1 on 1 Defender than Bird in the Post. Bird Was the Better Floor Defender, Stealer and Hustle Defender. Overall Bird Could Defend Well in the Post and Be The Best Team Defender of the 80s. Duncan Was and Is a Lousy Floor Defender.

Many People Forget Bird Had One of the Lowest DRTs in the 80s and in DWS also among the Best as a Team Defender.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:19 PM   #138
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Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

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Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Let me get this straight, you don't ****in get "Watch the games"?

Because that is what I said. So try and harp on where you think I'm making my point, if it suits you. I never said he was better because he scored more. He was better because he played better. Every post I've made in this thread is saying that, when comparing Duncan and Bird, Bird and Shaq, Nowitzki's Finals, whatever.


You don't have to get anything straight. I watched the series and Parker's play was better. He was the main component of that offense, in that series. His driving to the lane, breaking down of defenses, set the whole team up.


Just because you can't see defense from a boxscore, just because Duncan is an elite defender, doesn't mean that his defense was at the same level in that series. And it wasn't.

Parker played better relative to his usual play, while Duncan just played decent overall for him. That's why he won MVP, not because he had more impact on the game.

I have the whole series on DVD. This whole "Parker driving the lane, breaking down defenses and set the whole team up" is completely false. At least to the extent you're talking about. He averaged 3.25 assists per game.

As for the bolded, Duncans defense was typical Duncan as per usual in that series. He patrolled the paint, played elite help defense, blocked shots, altered many others. It's one thing to watch a series, it's another to watch it with a discerning eye. They held the Cavs to 80 points per game. Maybe I should burn the four games off and upload them so you can refresh your memory.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:25 PM   #139
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Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

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Originally Posted by Round Mound
Nope Duncan is a Better Rim Protector, Shot Blocker and 1 on 1 Defender than Bird in the Post. Bird Was the Better Floor Defender, Stealer and Hustle Defender. Overall Bird Could Defend Well in the Post and Be The Best Team Defender of the 80s. Duncan Was and Is a Lousy Floor Defender.

Many People Forget Bird Had One of the Lowest DRTs in the 80s and in DWS also among the Best as a Team Defender.


I understand what you mean by floor defender. And yes, obviously correct on hustle defender, and stealer of the ball.


But Tim Duncan's greatest gift as a defender is his team defense. He's not, as some say, the prototypical anchor. He's an anchor, but he defends mostly out of the post and not under the rim (he's played PF most of his career).

But Duncan's greatest ability is to anchor within a team concept, covers basic rotations, is supremely fundamental and his basketball acumen is quite incredible. He just has a great feel for the game. Combine that with him being a better defender overall (and that is clear) and he is the better team defender. I get what you mean by Bird being a better team defender, as in his overall basketball IQ and ability to play within the structure. But that is Duncan's defensive game, but with the added dominant ability and ability to anchor.

And he isn't a lousy floor defender. He's a C playing PF and he plays a pretty basic game on defense. He doesn't venture out much, even for a center, much less for a PF.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:29 PM   #140
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Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

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Originally Posted by Carbine
Parker played better relative to his usual play, while Duncan just played decent overall for him. That's why he won MVP, not because he had more impact on the game.

I have the whole series on DVD. This whole "Parker driving the lane, breaking down defenses and set the whole team up" is completely false. At least to the extent you're talking about. He averaged 3.25 assists per game.

As for the bolded, Duncans defense was typical Duncan as per usual in that series. He patrolled the paint, played elite help defense, blocked shots, altered many others. It's one thing to watch a series, it's another to watch it with a discerning eye. They held the Cavs to 80 points per game. Maybe I should burn the four games off and upload them so you can refresh your memory.


The Cavaliers also sucked. And their best player was young and carrying a load and was completely ineffective. Very few people were under the impression that Duncan was better than Parker in that series. Parker's APG were low but his offensive game is where the defense broke down and that is where the Spurs offense was its most potent. Duncan had greater impact, as far as importance to the team. He's Tim Duncan and he was close enough to his prime. He was the main piece. But Parker's play was the most effective in that series. Even Ginobili was a more important offensive player. Duncan had more impact on defense than either of them, but his defense wasn't as great as it was prior to 2004. Elite defense but Bowen and his dirty play was in the same tier and often better.

Last edited by Whoah10115 : 03-19-2013 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:30 PM   #141
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Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoah10115
I understand what you mean by floor defender. And yes, obviously correct on hustle defender, and stealer of the ball.


But Tim Duncan's greatest gift as a defender is his team defense. He's not, as some say, the prototypical anchor. He's an anchor, but he defends mostly out of the post and not under the rim (he's played PF most of his career).

But Duncan's greatest ability is to anchor within a team concept, covers basic rotations, is supremely fundamental and his basketball acumen is quite incredible. He just has a great feel for the game. Combine that with him being a better defender overall (and that is clear) and he is the better team defender. I get what you mean by Bird being a better team defender, as in his overall basketball IQ and ability to play within the structure. But that is Duncan's defensive game, but with the added dominant ability and ability to anchor.

And he isn't a lousy floor defender. He's a C playing PF and he plays a pretty basic game on defense. He doesn't venture out much, even for a center, much less for a PF.

Agreed. Good Description of Details
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Old 05-12-2014, 12:15 PM   #142
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Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

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Originally Posted by DMAVS41
You either didn't watch Bird or haven't paid attention to Duncan to think it's absurd to say Duncan.

I could give you a ton of reasons, but winning 4 titles and winning 50 or more games 14 consecutive years (never been done before...previous high was 12)...all while playing with by far the least amount of help any superstar to win that amount has had...I'll take Duncan.

I can't even imagine what the results would have been like if Duncan had played on teams even close to as talented as Bird's Celtics.

this...Tim Duncan is the most underrated dude. I'll take him over Magic or Bird.
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Old 05-12-2014, 12:52 PM   #143
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Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

My father favcorite player is Bird mine is Duncan and both of us chooses Duncan over Bird. Duncan is an amazing 2 way player. He impacts the game in so many ways. Bird is top 10 player of all time but i got Duncan above him
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Old 05-12-2014, 01:09 PM   #144
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Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

I find it absolutely absurd and disrespectful how many people are saying "...and it's not even close" when picking Bird.

I forgot, are we talking about the greatest power forward ever, or Chuck Hayes?
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Old 05-12-2014, 01:24 PM   #145
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Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

I take Bird, but yeah the people who say it's not even close are taking the piss. Duncan is the only player I can think of who makes me want to expand my legit top 6 to top 7.
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Old 05-12-2014, 01:30 PM   #146
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Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

Larry Duncan. And it ain't even close.
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Old 05-12-2014, 02:59 PM   #147
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Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

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Originally Posted by Im Still Ballin
Larry Duncan. And it ain't even close.
Yes Larry Duncan would easily be GOAT.
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Old 05-12-2014, 03:02 PM   #148
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Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

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Originally Posted by Jailblazers7
I think its a toss up. Bird had maybe the best peak of all time in the mid-80s. The guy can carry an offense and still hold his own as a defender because of his IQ on the court. He is more limited than Duncan in terms of size and athleticism but makes up for it in skill.

Duncan is a great defender and the best offensive post player of the past two 10-15 years. Shaq was more dominant due to his physicality but Duncan's skills on the block trump his. Really good passer too. Championship center piece style big who can anchor both ends of the floor.

I'd prob lean Duncan just because of the value of post player and because I've seen a lot more of his play. Grew up watching Duncan compared to watching some reruns of Bird so I don't think I can rate Bird accurately.

When ISHers make all time greatest lists these two are usually seperated by like 3-5 spots so not sure how ppl are going to say its not even close.


Pretty much the only thing that'd make me pick Duncan over Bird. Including the longevity of Duncan if you want to go that route, but in terms of what they could do in their peak including their bball IQ it's tough.
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Old 05-12-2014, 03:08 PM   #149
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Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

I got Duncan tbh
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Old 05-12-2014, 04:39 PM   #150
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Default Re: Tim Duncan vs Larry Bird

Bird is better
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