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Old 02-02-2013, 04:48 PM   #181
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

Overrated to an extent, especially when people claim he's better than Jordan
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:50 PM   #182
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iron Fist
Jordan has no rings without Pippen.

No one ever won alone. It's a team sport.
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:06 PM   #183
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bizil
Some of u Pip fans are so sensitive! Many of us NEVER said Pip couldn't be the best player on a title team. But at the same time Pip simply wasn't as dominant taking a game by the throat scoring the rock as many other legendary SF's or swingmen. If you look at the most people's top 10-15 GOAT SF's, Pip is the only one NOT LEGENDARY for dominant scoring:

Bird
Bron
Hondo
Dr. J
Barry
Baylor
Pippen
Nique
Pierce
English
Dantley
King
Melo (soon to be on the list somewhere)
Durant (soon to be on the list somewhere)

There are FACTS not opinions. Pip CAN lead a team to an NBA title, but I feel it would have to be a team like the early 2000s Pistons or the late 90's-2000s Blazer teams that an out of prime Pip was on. Pippen's versatility while being a very good scorer could get the job done. It's just that in most cases give me a Durant or Bernard King over a Pippen. It's like saying Sidney Moncrief is a better player than George Gervin because Moncrief was a better all around player. Which ain't true and MOST people know Gervin was a better player than Moncrief because Iceman was MORE DOMINANT! At one time, Iceman was regarded as the 2nd GOAT SG behind West. And that's over many SG's who were better "all around players".

The problem with these arguments is that we don't really know how good Pippen could have been scoring wise because he was never in a system that was geared to his strengths as a scorer. He's probably one of the five greatest open court players ever, but the triangle offense was a half court offense. It's why I've said that if put him on those Blazer teams with Drexler he would have scored a lot more and his assist would have been much higher as really, he's a natural PG like whoah said.

Still though what he did in 94 and 95 is impressive because he was good enough to be an efficient first option in an offense that wasn't geared to his game as a scorer at all. That is why his scoring didn't really go up very high in 94 and 95 even though Jordan was gone. It was more the fact that he played in the triangle offense then anything else as to why he didn't score more points. The difference between him and those list of sf's is they played in offensive systems that were geared to their strengths as scorers and getting them in their sweet spots.

He had an unselfish nature though and was a natural PG...the only real natural PG of that size since Magic. If he was given to keys to dominant the ball as a true PG his great play making and natural inclination to get others involved would have made his assist sky rocket passed what they were in his his career in the triangle offense.
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:10 PM   #184
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

Underrated by Jordan stans.
Overrated by Jordan haters.
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Old 02-02-2013, 06:54 PM   #185
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DatAsh
That depends. You're probably right in saying that removing Pippen would hurt Chicago more than removing Robinson would from San Antonio, but that's not a good gauge of who's actually more valuable; it's more-so a gauge of who's more valuable to their team, which isn't quite as meaningful in my opinion. The Bulls would struggle similarly to how the Cavs struggled without Lebron.

Huh? I agree with what you're saying about value but removing Robinson definitely would've hurt the Spurs more then removing Pippen. He was literally the Minnesota KG of that era. The Robinson pre-Duncan Spurs were not the deep well disciplined team they were after Duncan got there.
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Old 02-02-2013, 06:59 PM   #186
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke117
The problem with these arguments is that we don't really know how good Pippen could have been scoring wise because he was never in a system that was geared to his strengths as a scorer. He's probably one of the five greatest open court players ever, but the triangle offense was a half court offense. It's why I've said that if put him on those Blazer teams with Drexler he would have scored a lot more and his assist would have been much higher as really, he's a natural PG like whoah said.

He had an unselfish nature though and was a natural PG...the only real natural PG of that size since Magic. If he was given to keys to dominant the ball as a true PG his great play making and natural inclination to get others involved would have made his assist sky rocket passed what they were in his his career in the triangle offense.

You don't really need to see players in a certain system to assess how great of a scorer or passer they were. There stats might be different, but its not hard to assess.

Pippen's PG abilities are so grossly overrated around here. People make it seem like he would be Chris Paul or Steve Nash or something along those lines.
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Old 02-02-2013, 07:41 PM   #187
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k
Eh, the Bulls aren't even in the Finals without Pippen's play. With the Bulls down 0-2 in the ECF and the Knicks looking for the knockout punch in Game 3 Jordan didn't exactly have a stellar shooting game but his team picked it up...Pippen in particular. Same goes for the closeout Game 6 against the Knicks where Jordan couldn't hit the broad side of a barn while Pippen was hitting the daggers down the stretch to send the Knicks home. That's why you have two stars on the team. One to pick up the slack when the other is struggling.

Facts about 1993 ECF btw Knicks vs Bulls:

Fact # 1: severely sprain right wrist (shooting hand) of GOAT had 54 pts in leveling the series 2-2.

Fact # 2: still sprain right wrist (shooting hand) of GOAT had 30 pts triple double (29 pts to be exact), his career's most imp triple double that gave bulls 3-2 lead ON THE ROAD !!

Funny thing about "dumb revisionists" is If Pippen performs even slightly better than his usual "above average" self, he is considered the one who won the series.

But

Despite MJ severely spraining his RIGHT shooting hand Wrist in previous CAVS series in ECSF, he is expected to SHOOT like GOAT & his 54 pts performance, his career's best TRIPLE DOUBLE are all overlooked.

Just to show how much these 'retarded revisionist' want Pippen to NOT look like MJ's eternal sidekick & look more like ALL-TIME GREAT

Last edited by gengiskhan : 02-02-2013 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:22 PM   #188
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DatAsh
Maybe David Robinson? Robinson was putting up 30/11/5 on 51% while also playing better defense than Pippen. David Robinson was a beast in that two year span.


I think Pippen had a great claim to the MVP and DPOTY in 1994. I think he was the DPOTY in 1995. He was a better player, overall, in 1994. And Robinson was a better overall player in 1995 than he was in 1994. But I'd take Pippen's 93/94 season ahead of any of those 4 seasons. In the playoffs, Robinson didn't do anything to separate himself. He was incredible, and I even lean towards him being the better of the two over that span, but I'm not sure...and Robinson was one of my absolute favorite players of all-time.

Also, Pippen had a better defensive season than Robinson did, in either of those seasons.
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:25 PM   #189
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Default Re: Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bizil
Bottom line is Durant IS AN ALPHA DOG SCORER! He's also a team player who plays within the flow of the game too! U can be both. But KD's assassin mentality and epic scoring skills DICTATES he's an alpha dog scorer clearly! He frankly has a a GREAT CHANCE to be the premier alpha dog scoring machine the SF HAS EVER SEEN! And that's saying a lot when u got Bird, Nique, King, Dr. J, Barry, English, Dantley, and Baylor in that realm too.

U can want it bad, be a very skilled player, and be a 20 PPG. That DOESN'T mean u are an alpha dog scorer. A guy like Durant or Melo is in another galaxy on LIGHT SPEED HAN SOLO style than Pippen in that realm. And a point forward kind of guy like Bron has the foot on the gas EVERY SEASON to be a threat for a scoring title putting up 27-30 a night. So even point forwards who would prefer to pass first have more alpha dog gene than Pip EVER HAD! These are FACTS NOT OPINIONS! If Pip was perceived as an alpha dog, then he would rate in the top 15-20 GOAT. He was too revolutionary and accomplished for that not too happen. U give Barkley six rings and he's the GOAT PF and in the top 10 GOAT!!! A guy like Barkley is simply on another level or two than Pippen. Pip came of age when the SF's like Bird, Nique, King, English, Dantley, Aguirre, etc. were out of the league or tailend prime. Pip came of age when the SF spot wasn't the premier position depth wise in the L. When Bird was at his peak, the SF spot was the deepest position in the L in terms of cream of the crop talent!



I don't really agree. Pippen was a scorer, even if it wasn't his first instinct. 22PPG is legit scoring, and he wasn't being fed those points or running in an offense where he was the beneficiary. He's been at around that average before and, outside of those two years, he did all of this behind the greatest scorer of all-time, without any PG but himself.
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