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Old 11-26-2012, 06:02 PM   #76
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Nah, Definitely MJ too. oops
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Old 11-26-2012, 06:05 PM   #77
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Everyone forgetting about Dennis Johnson as well Michael Cooper
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:58 PM   #78
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii
So given my criteria then, perhaps I should bump him down into the final tier. I also need to reevaluate Ben Wallace's impact, and decide what to do about Rodman.

BTW what are your thoughts on Kareem/Walton?

I haven't entirely made up my mind on the Kareem/Walton debate. Walton sweeping Kareem doesn't mean as much to me as it seems to mean to others. Walton had the better team, and by a substantial margin. When you pile the Laker injuries on top of that, the sweep isn't all that surprising. I do think Walton was the slightly better player, but it's like splitting hairs to me.

As for their defense: both were excellent, Walton was slightly better, but not by much. I'm not sure I'd have either in my top 10. Walton would be there with better longevity, but top 10's always come with such stiff competition.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:03 PM   #79
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

What I hate about these lists is that it will be flooded with big men, just because they're big. And that means I'm gonna see Kareem and even Shaq on lists, which is where the problem lies.

Tho I will say, making a list of the best defenders is not like making an all-time list, where you factor in the full career. A list like this has room for "He's the best I ever saw" and the like.

I don't know that I'd truly try to rank, so...

Russell, Hakeem, Robinson, Walton, Howard, Wilt, Thurmond, Garnett, Pippen, Jordan.


I think that's my 10.

Last edited by Whoah10115 : 03-19-2013 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:05 PM   #80
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Jason Terry
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:06 PM   #81
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

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Originally Posted by Whoah10115
What I hate about these lists is that it will be flooded with big men, just because they're big. And that means I'm gonna see Kareem and even Shaq on lists...and that's atrocious.

Russell, Hakeem, Robinson, Walton, Howard, Wilt, Thurmond, Garnett, Pippen, Jordan.


I think that's my 10.

That's not a bad list (I'm not sure what my order would be, but there's a very good chance those ten comprise a good deal of the ten most impactful; from my understanding Thurmond should be ahead of Wilt, possibly second overall). I think I'd sub in either Duncan, Ewing, or Wallace for Jordan (where do you have those three, btw?) but it's not a deal breaker.

Last edited by fpliii : 03-19-2013 at 01:08 PM.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:21 PM   #82
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii
That's not a bad list (I'm not sure what my order would be, but there's a very good chance those ten comprise a good deal of the ten most impactful; from my understanding Thurmond should be ahead of Wilt, possibly second overall). I think I'd sub in either Duncan, Ewing, or Wallace for Jordan (where do you have those three, btw?) but it's not a deal breaker.



Not sure...I think Oakley is forgotten about. He was usually considered a top 5 defender in the game, tho he has only two All-Defensive selections (one 1st Team) to show for it. Wallace is the best defender of those 3. I think Ewing is abetter defender than Duncan. He was a better shot-blocker and he really deterred guys from driving to the lane. He guarded that rim so well, guarded the post so well, was such a smart help defender (like Duncan). He was physically limited after 1992 but he was still elite. Prior to that he was so much better.

They may be in the top 15 but there could be guys I'm forgetting. I've seen enough of Moncrief to know he's great but maybe not enough to rank him. I'd have to include Dennis Rodman. I think Gary Payton deserves placement. And, I forgot, Mutombo was better than the 3 you listed...at least for me he was.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:47 PM   #83
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Not sure...I think Oakley is forgotten about. He was usually considered a top 5 defender in the game, tho he has only two All-Defensive selections (one 1st Team) to show for it. Wallace is the best defender of those 3. I think Ewing is abetter defender than Duncan. He was a better shot-blocker and he really deterred guys from driving to the lane. He guarded that rim so well, guarded the post so well, was such a smart help defender (like Duncan). He was physically limited after 1992 but he was still elite. Prior to that he was so much better.

They may be in the top 15 but there could be guys I'm forgetting. I've seen enough of Moncrief to know he's great but maybe not enough to rank him. I'd have to include Dennis Rodman. I think Gary Payton deserves placement. And, I forgot, Mutombo was better than the 3 you listed...at least for me he was.

Hm I think we differ on Deke (we'll have to agree to disagree, since from the last thread we were both firmly entrenched in our stances), but I agree about everything else.

Let me also throw Bobby Jones' name out there.
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:57 PM   #84
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Duncan
KG
Pippen
Bowen
Payton

Ain't nobody scoring on this team.
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:03 PM   #85
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Quote:
Originally Posted by L.Kizzle
Shawn Marion should at least be on the short list.


but my top ten would be:

by position, it's too hard just doing a ten. I can narrow it to ten latter.


Center
1 Bill Russell
2 Wilt Chamberlain
3 Nate Thurmond
4 Hakeem Olajuwon
5 Dikembe Mutombo
6 Lew Alcindor
7 Bill Walton
8 Ben Wallace
9 David Robinson
10 Alonzo Mourning



Forward
1 Dennis Rodman
2 Scottie Pippen
3 Kevin Garnett
4 Tim Duncan
5 Gus Johnson
6 Dave Debusschere
7 Michael Cooper
8 Ron Artest
9 Bobby Jones
10 Maurice Lucas


Guards
1 Walt Frazier
2 Sidney Moncrief
3 Gary Payton
4 Dennis Johnson
5 Michael Jordan
6 Norm Van Lier
7 Joe Dumars
8 K.C. Jones
9 Jerry West
10 Jason Kidd


You can't possibly leave McHale off your forward list.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:15 PM   #86
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Didn't see this post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii
Hm I think we differ on Deke (we'll have to agree to disagree, since from the last thread we were both firmly entrenched in our stances), but I agree about everything else.

Let me also throw Bobby Jones' name out there.


I don't remember having a discussion Mutombo...what were you feelings there?

Bobby Jones is a good addition...as is Kevin McHale...in fact, remembering him is gonna make this tough on me.

I forgot Alonzo. I think he's also better than any of those 3. I saw someone put Kareem on the list, but listed him as Lew Alcindor. I don't know if he was implying anything, but that would be one way I could consider Kareem for the list...tho I still wouldn't put him in the top 20.

Last edited by Whoah10115 : 03-19-2013 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:45 PM   #87
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Pat Ewing anchored one of the top defenses of all time, and no one has him on their list. You are all just haters or just dumb. Which is it?

Mourning ahead of Pat

Walton ahead of Pat


In a list more specific than a GOAT list, leeway is given for actual games played...to a point. I think Walton does enough to qualify and it's legitimate to suggest he's the best defender to play, after Bill Russell. Thurmond and Wilt would be up for discussion and I think Hakeem and Robinson are clearly ahead of them both. And while people won't acknowledge it, Dwight Howard deserves a ton of mention. He's as good as I've seen since I've been watching.


When he was healthy Walton was better than Pat. Alonzo and Dikembe are closer. I have too much of a memory of post 92 Ewing, who was all-time but not nearly as good a defender as he was before. I think Alonzo could very well be in front of him. Tho I would take Ewing over Duncan.
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:14 PM   #88
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

10 best defensive bigs i have seen (PF/C):

Hakeem Olajuwon (He is my #1, the rest is in no order)
Dennis Rodman
Dikembe Mutombo
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
David Robinson
Alonzo Mourning
Kevin Garnett
Ben Wallace
Dwight Howard
Tim Duncan

10 best defensive perimeter guys i have seen (PG/SG/SF):

Scottie Pippen (He is my #1, the rest is in no order)
Bobby Jones
Sidney Moncrief
Lebron James
Gary Payton
Dennis Johnson
Michael Jordan
Joe Dumars
Michael Cooper
Ron Artest

PS: Shame on you for disregarding Lebron, he is as versatile of a defender as anybody was in NBA history, infact only one guy was that versatile defensively and his name was Scottie Pippen...

Last edited by pauk : 03-19-2013 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:19 PM   #89
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauk
10 best defensive bigs i have seen (PF/C):

Hakeem Olajuwon (He is my #1, the rest is in no order)
Dennis Rodman
Dikembe Mutombo
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
David Robinson
Alonzo Mourning
Kevin Garnett
Ben Wallace
Dwight Howard
Tim Duncan

10 best defensive perimeter guys i have seen (PG/SG/SF):

Scottie Pippen (He is my #1, the rest is in no order)
Bobby Jones
Sidney Moncrief
Lebron James
Gary Payton
Dennis Johnson
Michael Jordan
Joe Dumars
Michael Cooper
Ron Artest


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Old 03-19-2013, 05:26 PM   #90
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Default Re: Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Quote:
Originally Posted by dh144498

Lebron is a soon 7 x 1st all-defensive team player who was a runner-up for defensive player of the year and in talks for that award ever since, a guy who last year had the most 1st all-defensive team votes (even more than the guy who won the DPOY that year).... a guy who defends PG-SG-SF-PF-C like nobody else could, his defensive versatility can only be matched by Scottie Pippen in NBA history...... speaking of Pippen, he said that Lebron is the best defensive player in the NBA.... im sure what is the best defensive perimeter guy i ever seen knows slightly what he is talking about better than at least you?

No, the only one that needs to be laughed at is yourself dh11414444343439434989849888

Last edited by pauk : 03-19-2013 at 05:30 PM.
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