Shaq's Wilt like performance

[Pointguard]

It was not the same way then. And who are these fanatics and how were they going to get a hold of expensive reel footage of the 60's and 70's? I have dealed with this very issue among other people with regards to pro wrestling footage from the 60's and 70's with people who have met with actual station heads and the answer is always the same. Reel footage before the advent of the VCR was quite expensive and it was common policy that rather than use new reel to reuse the old ones. This stuff just isn't out there especially with an NBA who didn't use to care about stuff like this before David Stern. I once read where Stern said when he came to work for the league they had a very small number of employees working for the entire league, this simply was not a priority at the time. I strongly disagree that this is out there anywhere and if anything survives it is mostly by luck.

So you don't believe your fellow Bostonian - Simmon's? My uncles who were never in the money have 60's footage of themselves goofing in a park. I can understand wrestling being problematic as they shifted hands and owners frequently, faced lawsuits, were actually hiding stuff from themselves and lacked institutional consistency. Basketball was more like Football in that day - a good distance behind Baseball but nevermind us knowing about OJ and Jim Brown, there is even footage of Jim Thorpe in the 1920's. Once an organiztion establishes a Hall of Fame its a full fledge institution making its stand on history and claiming it. I think it began the HOF began in 1959 but didn't get its building until nine years later? But at that time you would already have your screening committies and storage for films.

Your determination of luck applies to where you believe the NBA was at this time and that is up for debate but local stations and networks are thorough about what they put out there. Networks are keepers for sure. That's their policy and nothing is lucky about policy.

[jlauber]

maybe they don't release the 73 point game because people will stop taking wilt's numbers seriously (even more so)

Oh, of course. Just like Wilt hanging TWO 60+ point games in his 68-69 season (in a league that averaged 112.3 ppg BTW), and in a year in which he averaged 14 FGAs per game. Or LEADING the league the VERY NEXT season at 32.2 ppg when he went down with his knee injury...in a league that Kareem played in and scored 28.8 ppg. Or the fact that Kareem faced many of the same centers that a PRIME Chamberlain did, and never approached Wilt's numbers against them

Or Wilt having two of his 103 30-30 games just in the '72 season alone...and something that Kareem could only achieve one time in his entire 20 year career.

The FACT was, Wilt was scoring 60+ points in games in the ENTIRE decade of the 60's.

[Pointguard]

Or Wilt having two of his 103 30-30 games just in the '72 season alone...and something that Kareem could only achieve one time in his entire 20 year career.

The FACT was, Wilt was scoring 60+ points in games in the ENTIRE decade of the 60's.

Or the 20/20/20 game. Pretty sure there's a 20/20/15/15 game or a 25/20/15/10 game in there too.

My bad on that Jlauder. I said his 500 monster games as tho they only existed between '60 and 67. But the monster games of great balance make it more like 700 thru out his career.

[jlauber]

Or the 20/20/20 game. Pretty sure there's a 20/20/15/15 game or a 25/20/15/10 game in there too.

My bad on that Jlauder. I said his 500 monster games as tho they only existed between '60 and 67. But the monster games of great balance make it more like 700 thru out his career.

I agree. Wilt DOMINATED his ENTIRE career. My god, in his LAST season (72-73) at the age of 36, he was voted first-team all-defense (over the likes of Hayes, Lanier, Reed, Thurmond, Cowens, and Kareem); he LED the NBA in rebounding (and by nearly two per game) at 18.6 rpg; and he shot .727 from the floor, which is a record that will probably never be approached, much less broken.) Furthermore, he faced a PRIME Kareem in six regular season battles, and not only held Kareem to .450 shooting, he outshot Kareem by a staggering .737 to .450 margin, which included one game in which he OUTSCORED Kareem, 24-21 (and outshot him in that game, 10-14 to 10-27.) Then, in the post-season, all he did was play 47.1 mpg, and average 22.5 rpg (in a league that averaged 50.6 BTW), which is not only that last time a player ever averaged 20+ rpg in the post-season...it was miles ahead of the next best post-season (Kareem's 17.3 rpg in the '77 playoffs.)

I have said it before, but Chamberlain had a TON of just mind-boggling games. How about a 78-43 game? Or how about FOUR 50+-40+ games? Or how about 55 40-30 games (and the rest of the NBA had a combined SIX)? How about a triple-double game of 53-32-14, and on 24-29 shooting? You mentioned his double-triple-double (22 points, 25 rebounds, and 21 assists.) How about one of his three highest "perfect games" (15-15, 16-16, and 18-18)? How about his 66 point game (on 29-35 shooting, which is by far the most efficient 60+ point game in NBA history)? Or just one of his 32 60+ point games, which is two more than all of the rest of the NBA...COMBINED? How about one of his 15 40+ rebound games? How about his 25+ block game that Pollack recorded, or his nationally televised game in which he recorded a known 23 blocks? Where are his FOUR 50+ point playoff games (including a 56-35 and a 50-35 games)? Where are one of his 24 40+ point games against Russell...including perhaps his 44-43 game against him? Or one of his FIVE 50+ games against Russell?

Look, I know that his numbers were slightly inflated due to pace early in his career. And really, that is not the point. What I would like to see, though, were his SKILL-SETS in those games. We KNOW that HOF Coach Red Holzman credited Wilt with a very good OUTSIDE shot early in his career. And we have limited footage of Chamberlain making foul-line jumpers, and 15+ foot bank shots, as well as quick 10+ ft turn-around jump shots.

We KNOW he was a sprinter and high-jumper in college. We KNOW that he was regarded as one of the strongest ATHLETES in the world at the time. And we KNOW that he was between 7-1 and 7-2 (if not taller), and with a 7-8 wingspan. And we KNOW that he weighed anywhere between 260-300+ in his NBA career.

Now, all we need is just SOME of those games to educate the "doubters" out there.

[HylianNightmare]

i can't even watch that yellow ass video

[Pointguard]

Look, I know that his numbers were slightly inflated due to pace early in his career. And really, that is not the point. What I would like to see, though, were his SKILL-SETS in those games. We KNOW that HOF Coach Red Holzman credited Wilt with a very good OUTSIDE shot early in his career. And we have limited footage of Chamberlain making foul-line jumpers, and 15+ foot bank shots, as well as quick 10+ ft turn-around jump shots.

WiltKansas, and several other youtube contributors provided the jump shooting aspect of his game. What I find disturbing is that outside of the Holtzman quote, people seemed to be mighty unwilling to talk about his skilled game. A game so skilled that he could dominate while rarely resorting to a powergame. A great middle game? Or the disparity in calls that Mikan talked about. Or in Fatal9 posting one of his games where Wilt was obviously constrained on taking the usual extra half step and was called for walk when he did - this is something I accidently stumbled on - so you know there were other hinderances imposed on him. Even I didn't know that in the crazy scoring years he was getting 15 blocks in a game, and it seems to accidently or incidently come up.

The lens has some untold stories in it.

[Pointguard]

maybe they don't release the 73 point game because people will stop taking wilt's numbers seriously (even more so)

Wow, so you take the MDE and the one of the best shooting guards ever and combine them and they are right there with Wilt and its supposed to be a diss on Wilt? Insult him some more!

[jlauber]

WiltKansas, and several other youtube contributors provided the jump shooting aspect of his game. What I find disturbing is that outside of the Holtzman quote, people seemed to be mighty unwilling to talk about his skilled game. A game so skilled that he could dominate while rarely resorting to a powergame. A great middle game? Or the disparity in calls that Mikan talked about. Or in Fatal9 posting one of his games where Wilt was obviously constrained on taking the usual extra half step and was called for walk when he did - this is something I accidently stumbled on - so you know there were other hinderances imposed on him. Even I didn't know that in the crazy scoring years he was getting 15 blocks in a game, and it seems to accidently or incidently come up.

The lens has some untold stories in it.

Great post. And that is exactly why we need some video proof of Chamberlain's amazing skill-sets. And one can only wonder how long the NBA would have allowed Wilt to physically overpower the league, had he chosen to do so (which he seldom did.) I am convinced that the NBA would have enacted even more "anti-Wilt" rules in an effort to curtail his domination. The reality was, had Wilt played like Shaq, and been allowed to do so, he would have made a complete mockery of the game. He would have scored at will, and 100+ point games would have been common-place.

[nycelt84]

So you don't believe your fellow Bostonian - Simmon's? My uncles who were never in the money have 60's footage of themselves goofing in a park. I can understand wrestling being problematic as they shifted hands and owners frequently, faced lawsuits, were actually hiding stuff from themselves and lacked institutional consistency. Basketball was more like Football in that day - a good distance behind Baseball but nevermind us knowing about OJ and Jim Brown, there is even footage of Jim Thorpe in the 1920's. Once an organiztion establishes a Hall of Fame its a full fledge institution making its stand on history and claiming it. I think it began the HOF began in 1959 but didn't get its building until nine years later? But at that time you would already have your screening committies and storage for films.

Your determination of luck applies to where you believe the NBA was at this time and that is up for debate but local stations and networks are thorough about what they put out there. Networks are keepers for sure. That's their policy and nothing is lucky about policy.

No I don't really believe Simmons. And your analogy about home movies is different because the kind of recording used to record home movies in that era is different from the kind of recording that television was doing and nobody had the means to record television programs until the invention of the VCR. Furthermore from 1962-1965 the NBA didn't even have a true network home.

And you're wrong about the networks saving everything by the way. Several episodes of the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson are lost forever and even the complete broadcast of Super Bowl II is lost forever and Super Bowl I was thought to be the same until it was discovered. Networks didn't start saving until the mid-late 70's I have now found out. So I am even more convinced that these games most likely just don't exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ion_broadcasts

[necya]

No I don't really believe Simmons. And your analogy about home movies is different because the kind of recording used to record home movies in that era is different from the kind of recording that television was doing and nobody had the means to record television programs until the invention of the VCR. Furthermore from 1962-1965 the NBA didn't even have a true network home.

And you're wrong about the networks saving everything by the way. Several episodes of the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson are lost forever and even the complete broadcast of Super Bowl II is lost forever and Super Bowl I was thought to be the same until it was discovered. Networks didn't start saving until the mid-late 70's I have now found out. So I am even more convinced that these games most likely just don't exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ion_broadcasts

this is right.
you won't find home records from before 76. plus, the first VCR only allowed to record 40min of movie.
you will only find greatest games, nba tv and espn classic versions. and they don't have a lot.
concerning Wity13's account, he has been removed by the NBA, like some other random accounts.
they are very protected with their business.
you can contact some college who will help you to get old games. but the nba...i have tried to write/email them, the broadcasters, to get help from NBA players, nothing.
you need good friends in the tv network.
i only know someone who get the chance to trade with Mike Dunleavy for a rare playoff game from 1983.

[Pointguard]

No I don't really believe Simmons. And your analogy about home movies is different because the kind of recording used to record home movies in that era is different from the kind of recording that television was doing and nobody had the means to record television programs until the invention of the VCR. Furthermore from 1962-1965 the NBA didn't even have a true network home.

And you're wrong about the networks saving everything by the way. Several episodes of the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson are lost forever and even the complete broadcast of Super Bowl II is lost forever and Super Bowl I was thought to be the same until it was discovered. Networks didn't start saving until the mid-late 70's I have now found out. So I am even more convinced that these games most likely just don't exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ion_broadcasts

You do realize you are citing the exception and not the rule in the Superbowl game and Johnny Carson (what about 9000 episodes?) loosing .001 should not be compared to retaining only .01 percent. You are saying the NBA lost a whole warehouse and miraculously retained the three or four Shaqattack mentions above? Which by luck happen to pick and choose a select group of games?

Different localities have different storage policies and capabilities. If the NBA looses 8/10ths of their footage of a decade onsite, that should have been a major news story. An even bigger story with the Networks who would have amazingly synchronized their loses. Why are you so convinced this happened without a paper trail anywhere?

The home recording on youtube is a reel to reel on the screen of the TV, at least that is what I can tell of the foreign films - the main problem is getting rid of glare. There is one guy overseas that I believe he somehow got an actual. We know its not a VCR. I understand that. But fanatics are resourceful people.

[nycelt84]

You do realize you are citing the exception and not the rule in the Superbowl game and Johnny Carson (what about 9000 episodes?) loosing .001 should not be compared to retaining only .01 percent. You are saying the NBA lost a whole warehouse and miraculously retained the three or four Shaqattack mentions above? Which by luck happen to pick and choose a select group of games?

Different localities have different storage policies and capabilities. If the NBA 8/10ths of their footage of a decade onsite, that should have been a major news story. An even bigger story with the Networks who would have amazingly synchronized their loses. Why are you so convinced this happened without a paper trail anywhere?

The home recording on youtube is a reel to reel on the screen of the TV, at least that is what I can tell of the foreign films - the main problem is getting rid of glare. There is one guy overseas that I believe he somehow got an actual. We know its not a VCR. I understand that. But fanatics are resourceful people.

For some reason you're not getting that networks didn't save stuff and the Johnny Carson is not an exception but just the most notable. I see you obviously neglected to read the wikipedia link I posted about how stuff just wasn't saved in those days. And I don't why it would be a major story about the NBA not having games saved in the 60's when for one there were a distant 3rd league fighting for popularity and 2nd that was something that virtually nobody did anyway and 3rd most games weren't taped to begin with.

Where you have the information that the NBA had some kind of warehouse I would like to find out and before David Stern saving old footage was not a priority. And once again I don't know why you keep mentioning the networks when for one games were rarely televised on national television in the 60's and 2nd local television in the 60's through the 70's saved absolutely nothing.

[Psileas]

On deleted televised archives, I'm not an American, so I have to ask: When exactly did the first editions of video recorders become popular in the US? Before or after the early 70's? If before, it wouldn't be impossible for a few "tech junkies" of the era to have kept a few archives that don't "officially" exist now.