How many players can replace MJ on 90's Bulls team and still win 6 titles or more?

[NBASTATMAN]

KB's fg attempts per game 2000-2004: 20.34
KB's fg attempts per game 2005-2009 (first option yrs): 22.32
Why are we disqualifying his pre-first option years when he was still taking around the same amount of shots (including more shots then his bail out guy, Shaq)? He sure as hell was still shooting like he was the first option so he should get penalized at a first option type player.

Obviously because it helps his agenda.. Wade is about equal to Kobe in eff shooting percentage after the no touch rules... IN 05 and 06 Wade shot .512 and .486.. Kobe in 08 and 09 shot .514 and .490... Wade was not even in his prime yet.. Wait till WADE gets a offensive team like Kobe has around him... In 05 Wade would have shot higher but he injured some ribs and he shot 7-20 in the last game vs Detroit...

[boozehound]

the correct answer (obviously) is none. No one.

[branslowski]

The Dream

Kobe

LeBron

Wilt

[nnn123]

If we're talkin about whether Kobe could do the same, you guys also got to take into account the longevity factor. MJ's team won 6 titles in 8 years, meaning MJ was dominant for a 8 year span. I can't find any 8 year span in which Kobe could do the same....you can't just pick the best version of Kobe, his best year, and use that to predict how many titles he would win. You also got to take into account the aging process. He was too young in his low-mid 20s to be the *leader* of those bulls teams IMO...I don't think he matured until 2007-08. Likewise, it's safe to assume we won't be quite as good as Jordan in his mid-30s, due to the fact that present Kobe is comparable to Jordan in the 2nd 3-peat. It's hard for me to find a 8 yr span of dominance

[NBASTATMAN]

The Dream

Kobe

LeBron

Wilt

WADE

STACKHOUSE

VINCE CARTER

NASH

[Roundball_Rock]

he won 11 titles and competition was not as weak as some of today's so called fans pretend

He won during a time where he only had to beat 7 or 8 teams to win a championship. Making the conference finals in the modern era>>a 60's ring.

With Kobe they would win in 91', 94', 96', and 97' easily but they would lose in 92', 98' and 93' would be a toss up. That series would go to 7 games and since Phoenix had HCA the Suns would probably win.

As to Jordan if he did not retire, the Bulls would win 7 out of 8 times from 1991-98. There was no way they were going to win in 95' without any interior defense or rebounding.

A lot of people are naming great players and saying they would win as many or nearly as many championships as Jordan did. How can this be, though, when these same players had much less success on much better teams?

I figured it would be interesting to look at the record in the NBA finals for top players since 1980 (I had to draw the line somewhere), as well as their records in the conference finals.

NBA finals

Michael Jordan 6-0
Scottie Pippen 6-0
Tim Duncan 4-0
Kareem 6-4
Magic Johnson 5-4
Larry Bird 3-2
Shaquille O'Neal 4-2
Kobe Bryant 4-2
Hakeem Olajuwon 2-1
Isiah Thomas 2-1
Dwayne Wade 1-0
Kevin Garnett 1-0

Clyde Drexler 1-2
Julius Erving 1-2 (1-3 all-time, he lost in 1977 too)
Karl Malone 0-3
Jason Kidd 0-2
Lebron James 0-1
Charles Barkley 0-1
Patrick Ewing 0-1
Allen Iverson 0-1
Dirk Nowitski 0-1


Conference Finals

Magic Johnson 9-1
Kobe Bryant 6-1
Michael Jordan 6-2
Kareem 10-4
Shaquille O'Neal 6-3
Scottie Pippen 6-3
Tim Duncan 4-2
Larry Bird 5-3
Clyde Drexler 3-2
Julius Erving 3-2 (5-3 all-time)
Isiah Thomas 3-2
Jason Kidd 2-0
Karl Malone 3-3
Hakeem Olajuwon 2-2
Patrick Ewing 2-2
Allen Iverson 1-0

Dwayne Wade 1-1
Dirk Nowitski 1-1
Kevin Garnett 1-1
Lebron James 1-1
Charles Barkley 1-2 (one loss came as a rookie)
Steve Nash 0-3

[NBASTATMAN]

He won during a time where he only had to beat 7 or 8 teams to win a championship. Making the conference finals in the modern era>>a 60's ring.

With Kobe they would win in 91', 94', 96', and 97' easily but they would lose in 92', 98' and 93' would be a toss up. That series would go to 7 games and since Phoenix had HCA the Suns would probably win.

As to Jordan if he did not retire, the Bulls would win 7 out of 8 times from 1991-98. There was no way they were going to win in 95' without any interior defense or rebounding.

A lot of people are naming great players and saying they would win as many or nearly as many championships as Jordan did. How can this be, though, when these same players had much less success on much better teams?

I figured it would be interesting to look at the record in the NBA finals for top players since 1980 (I had to draw the line somewhere), as well as their records in the conference finals.

NBA finals

Michael Jordan 6-0
Scottie Pippen 6-0
Tim Duncan 4-0
Kareem 6-4
Magic Johnson 5-4
Larry Bird 3-2
Shaquille O'Neal 4-2
Kobe Bryant 4-2
Hakeem Olajuwon 2-1
Isiah Thomas 2-1
Dwayne Wade 1-0
Kevin Garnett 1-0

Clyde Drexler 1-2
Julius Erving 1-2 (1-3 all-time, he lost in 1977 too)
Karl Malone 0-3
Jason Kidd 0-2
Lebron James 0-1
Charles Barkley 0-1
Patrick Ewing 0-1
Allen Iverson 0-1
Dirk Nowitski 0-1


Conference Finals

Magic Johnson 9-1
Kobe Bryant 6-1
Michael Jordan 6-2
Kareem 10-4
Shaquille O'Neal 6-3
Scottie Pippen 6-3
Tim Duncan 4-2
Larry Bird 5-3
Clyde Drexler 3-2
Julius Erving 3-2 (5-3 all-time)
Isiah Thomas 3-2
Jason Kidd 2-0
Karl Malone 3-3
Hakeem Olajuwon 2-2
Patrick Ewing 2-2
Allen Iverson 1-0

Dwayne Wade 1-1
Dirk Nowitski 1-1
Kevin Garnett 1-1
Lebron James 1-1
Charles Barkley 1-2 (one loss came as a rookie)
Steve Nash 0-3

Very good post..

[chitownsfinest]

He won during a time where he only had to beat 7 or 8 teams to win a championship. Making the conference finals in the modern era>>a 60's ring.

With Kobe they would win in 91', 94', 96', and 97' easily but they would lose in 92', 98' and 93' would be a toss up. That series would go to 7 games and since Phoenix had HCA the Suns would probably win.

As to Jordan if he did not retire, the Bulls would win 7 out of 8 times from 1991-98. There was no way they were going to win in 95' without any interior defense or rebounding.

A lot of people are naming great players and saying they would win as many or nearly as many championships as Jordan did. How can this be, though, when these same players had much less success on much better teams?

I figured it would be interesting to look at the record in the NBA finals for top players since 1980 (I had to draw the line somewhere), as well as their records in the conference finals.

NBA finals

Michael Jordan 6-0
Scottie Pippen 6-0
Tim Duncan 4-0
Kareem 6-4
Magic Johnson 5-4
Larry Bird 3-2
Shaquille O'Neal 4-2
Kobe Bryant 4-2
Hakeem Olajuwon 2-1
Isiah Thomas 2-1
Dwayne Wade 1-0
Kevin Garnett 1-0

Clyde Drexler 1-2
Julius Erving 1-2 (1-3 all-time, he lost in 1977 too)
Karl Malone 0-3
Jason Kidd 0-2
Lebron James 0-1
Charles Barkley 0-1
Patrick Ewing 0-1
Allen Iverson 0-1
Dirk Nowitski 0-1


Conference Finals

Magic Johnson 9-1
Kobe Bryant 6-1
Michael Jordan 6-2
Kareem 10-4
Shaquille O'Neal 6-3
Scottie Pippen 6-3
Tim Duncan 4-2
Larry Bird 5-3
Clyde Drexler 3-2
Julius Erving 3-2 (5-3 all-time)
Isiah Thomas 3-2
Jason Kidd 2-0
Karl Malone 3-3
Hakeem Olajuwon 2-2
Patrick Ewing 2-2
Allen Iverson 1-0

Dwayne Wade 1-1
Dirk Nowitski 1-1
Kevin Garnett 1-1
Lebron James 1-1
Charles Barkley 1-2 (one loss came as a rookie)
Steve Nash 0-3

Good post and I agree with Kobe winning in 94 and 96, but 91 has a big question mark and I do not see him winning in 97. Let us not forget that MJ played the facilitator role amazingly in the playoffs and dominated on scoring at the same time. Can Kobe do that consistently throughout the playoffs like MJ did? MJ averaged 8.4 assists per game in that yrs playoffs and averaged over 10 apg in the finals while scoring 30+ per game as well on amazing efficiency. Is it a coincidence that when MJ had the most apg in any of his finals series, so many role players stepped up? Paxson played amazing that series and was extremely clutch in game 5 particularly because of MJ's willingness to pass to him off screens and doubles. Ho Grant/Scottie Williams also played really good in that yrs finals as well. The Bulls went 15-2 in that yrs playoffs and would have been 15-0 possibly if not for Sam Perkins and Hershew Hawkins hitting game winners against the Bulls. The Bulls dominance was mostly because of MJ's great all around play. Does Kobe put up those type of numbers?

97 speaks for itself really. Pip was banged up from the Miami series and was not himself even though he did put up a nice 20/8/4 stat line. You mentioned in the other thread how badly Toni's shot was off those playoffs due an injury he suffered in the season and Rodman was out of sync in terms of rebounding (Jordan nearly out rebounded him in those playoffs). Does Kobe win with all those circumstances burdening him? Can Kobe take the role of lead scorer and take care of rebounding duties as well? Does Kobe do what MJ did in those finals which was an extremely close series if you look at the scores of the games in that series. Look at what MJ did in each of those wins: Game 1 he hit the game winner, game 2 he put up a resounding 38/13/9, leading his team in pts/rebs/assts along with no one else on his team scoring more then 15. Game 5 speaks for it self as it was the famous flu game and it was MJ's 38/7/5 that spurred the Bulls to only a two point victory. Not to mention, him hitting the go ahead three in the final minute to put the Bulls ahead. Game 6, he put up a 39/11/4 and passed to Kerr for the game winning shot off a double. Does KB replicate what MJ did in 97 with all the circumstance on him? I honestly do not think so.

[Roundball_Rock]

Good post. You changed my opinion. Without MJ the Bulls would have lost in 97', although I think they would have still made it to the finals. People forget how great the Malone/Stockton Jazz teams were. They did not make it to two consecutive finals by chance. They beat a stacked Hakeem/Drexler/Barkley team to get there the first time.

[ConanRulesNBC]

Tim Duncan (replaces Luc Longley)
Dennis Rodman
Kukoc
Pippen
Harper

I think that team could win a couple of championships.

Luc Longley
Dennis Rodman
Kukoc
Pippen
Magic Johnson

That would be another really strong team.

But, IMO, Jordan was the only one that would win 6 titles. That team was built perfectly for Jordan.

[beau_boy04]

nice video of Hakeem vs Jordan