MJ dunks over Hakeem

[Kblaze8855]

[Kblaze8855]

[warriorfan]

cool. your bball takes were just as shitty as they were almost two decades ago. congrats?

[RRR3]

cool. your bball takes were just as shitty as they were almost two decades ago. congrats?

You were insisting LeBron James isn't top 10 the other day, I wouldn't talk about someone clearly more intelligent than you.

[Phoenix]

Go to the Shaq vs Bron thread. haha, when people start talking about something interesting (tho that's not so interesting,) gotta stay with that. Just like Caitlin is THE TRUTH thread. The thing about 3ball is he is persistent. Gotta be as persistent. Gotta work for good bball discussion!!

-Smak

Yeah I've made a few posts in the Shaq/Lebron thread. How the posters here let 3balls topics go 9 pages with actual serious replies is one of life's great mysteries.

[Kblaze8855]

You were insisting LeBron James isn't top 10 the other day, I wouldn't talk about someone clearly more intelligent than you.

Thing is I don’t care if he agrees with what I said. I just find it funny he spent years telling me I think what I think because of LeBron when time and time again I have proven I said the same thing before there was any connection. Just like I can show you me thinking Gasol was better when he won 22 games.

It’s just a product of never ending bad faith arguments. People don’t even have legitimate convictions. They just have well worn battle tested agenda based points they have leaned on thousands of times till they no longer have the ability to be genuine.

And such people can’t even get their heads around the fact that many opinions exist independent of the agendas they have spent decades pushing and fighting.

I pointed out to him once, that he’s one of the people I cannot get an unfiltered opinion on for a number of players because he is in never ending arguments about everybody associated with LeBron Kobe Steph, and Jordan, so nothing can be said that could be used against him later. He didn’t even disagree. Just laughed and said he was doing his best.

For the life of me, I can’t understand it.

3ball is obviously the worst of those types. I made a topic once about how do we Account for how much someone shoots when we list points per game and he comes in and tells me it’s some roundabout way to suggest LeBron is actually a better scorer than Jordan when it was just a rehash of a topic I made in 2003 about James Worthy versus Dominique Wilkins.

The entire sports World needs a reset. Clear all agendas. No “Oh but last time you said…”.

Just get people back to being themselves. Maybe we can stop hearing people lie about thinking Chris Bosh was better then finals MVP Kobe and hear legitimate opinions.

I actually do care what most of you people have to say. I wouldn’t ask if I didn’t give a shit. Just annoying to see how often what people have to say is exactly what one would expect they think based on who they hate.

Nobody…and I do mean nobody… Is dumb enough to think Chris Bosh who wasn’t even all nba third team was better than this Kobe






but because he needs to make Bosh out to be as great as possible before joining the heat, he has to lie about thinking it. And being willing to be that dishonest about opinions, makes him think everyone else must be as well.

At that point, there’s almost no reason to even be talking to each other.

Even at its best sports talk isn’t exactly useful. But when it’s this colored by adherence to agendas, it is utterly ****ing pointless.

[Phoenix]

That last reporter question...

'Do you think he's the best player ever, even better than Jordan?'

Its interesting how off the rails the discourse has gone now, where 14 years later some people argue these were never serious talking points in the moment. What Kobe showed in that video was absolutely as lethal as anything MJ did in a given moment. Doesn't mean Kobe was overall better game to game, season to season but these topics weren't pulled out of thin air for shits and giggles.

It's like the people who act like Kobe vs Tmac in 2003 wasn't a legit argument because of the inability to separate hindsight from the there and then of the moment.
'

[Kblaze8855]

That last reporter question...

'Do you think he's the best player ever, even better than Jordan?'

Its interesting how off the rails the discourse has gone now, where 14 years later some people argue these were never serious talking points in the moment. What Kobe showed in that video was absolutely as lethal as anything MJ did in a given moment. Doesn't mean Kobe was overall better game to game, season to season but these topics weren't pulled out of thin air for shits and giggles.

It's like the people who act like Kobe vs Tmac in 2003 wasn't a legit argument because of the inability to separate hindsight from the there and then of the moment.
'

I made a topic in 2003 saying I didn’t understand why people feel the need to wait to acknowledge what’s right in front of them. I think the specific example I used was Kobe and Tmac that season versus bird in like 1984. I said in 20 years, it will be considered a perfectly valid question to ask 2003 Kobe/Tmac versus 1984 bird. so why isn’t it valid right now?

The general answer naturally involved not knowing the future. And in Tmacs example the future didn’t end up what we expected. But that still doesn’t make him any worse in 2003. It just makes us more unwilling to acknowledge it.

So maybe Tmac hurt my argument….but it shouldn’t.

02 and 03 Tmac was a perfectly normal pick for top 3 in a league with Duncan, KG, Shaq, and Kobe all in or near prime form. But getting hurt later and falling off, makes him a name people are uncomfortable acknowledging is in the same all-time company they were. Even only as basketball players and not career wise.

[tpols]

And Zach Lavine put up 24+ a game on 48/39/85 on a playoff team. I could run you down a good list of hall of famers to never do that. Even if we throw out the 3 and ft percentages.

Nobody cares. And nobody should.

Zach lavine did have a better offensive season than Pippen ever did when he averaged 27/5/5 on elite efficiency. The problem is dude doesn't play defense. His splits for ORTG and DRTG are literally neutral and even negative at times... meaning he gives up just as many buckets as he makes.

That simply wasn't the case with Chris Bosh. His offensive efficiency and production was similar to Lavine, but his defensive metrics were waaay better. Bosh has big time positive splits.

I know you don't care about real measurable metrics and data, and rely rather on how you feeel... but those are just the facts. Bosh produced far more buckets than he gave up. And his prime splits and production are similar to Pippen if not better. Of course he played most of his prime with bums while Scottie played with Michael ****ing Jordan. And there-in lies the reason one is considered way better ranked despite not really being all that much better @ all. The winning spotlight.

Pau was just as good as Pippen as well but spent a huge chunk of his prime with mediocre at best help. If he played with Kobe for over a decade and won 5 rings with him he'd see a massive bump in his GOAT ranking.

[1987_Lakers]

Zach lavine did have a better offensive season than Pippen ever did when he averaged 27/5/5 on elite efficiency. The problem is dude doesn't play defense. His splits for ORTG and DRTG are literally neutral and even negative at times... meaning he gives up just as many buckets as he makes.

That simply wasn't the case with Chris Bosh. His offensive efficiency and production was similar to Lavine, but his defensive metrics were waaay better. Bosh has big time positive splits.

I know you don't care about real measurable metrics and data, and rely rather on how you feeel... but those are just the facts. Bosh produced far more buckets than he gave up. And his prime splits and production are similar to Pippen if not better. Of course he played most of his prime with bums while Scottie played with Michael ****ing Jordan. And there-in lies the reason one is considered way better ranked despite not really being all that much better @ all. The winning spotlight.

Pau was just as good as Pippen as well but spent a huge chunk of his prime with mediocre at best help. If he played with Kobe for over a decade and won 5 rings with him he'd see a massive bump in his GOAT ranking.

Bosh was never known as a defender in Toronto. His defense peaked in Miami, and his post defense was always mediocre.

It's crazy how much people are trying to re-write history in this thread, from warriorfan saying Bosh > Kobe in 2010 and now tpols saying Bosh was some defensive force in Toronto.

[tpols]

Nobody said Bosh was a defensive force, but again he had way better defensive metrics than a Zach Lavine or Bradley Beal type. Like... way better. This is documented fact. His splits were always in the big time positive. There are a lot of go to scorers who gave up just as much as they produced. Bosh simply wasn't one of them.

[1987_Lakers]

Nobody said Bosh was a defensive force, but again he had way better defensive metrics than a Zach Lavine or Bradley Beal type. Like... way better. This is documented fact. His splits were always in the big time positive. There are a lot of go to scorers who gave up just as much as they produced. Bosh simply wasn't one of them.

Bosh's defensive box plus/minus was in the negative throughout his 7 years in Toronto and the Raptors had the worst defense in the NBA in 2010 with Bosh.

Using defense as some sort of decisive factor when arguing for Toronto Bosh is retarded.

[warriorfan]

Thing is I don’t care if he agrees with what I said. I just find it funny he spent years telling me I think what I think because of LeBron when time and time again I have proven I said the same thing before there was any connection. Just like I can show you me thinking Gasol was better when he won 22 games.

It’s just a product of never ending bad faith arguments. People don’t even have legitimate convictions. They just have well worn battle tested agenda based points they have leaned on thousands of times till they no longer have the ability to be genuine.

And such people can’t even get their heads around the fact that many opinions exist independent of the agendas they have spent decades pushing and fighting.

I pointed out to him once, that he’s one of the people I cannot get an unfiltered opinion on for a number of players because he is in never ending arguments about everybody associated with LeBron Kobe Steph, and Jordan, so nothing can be said that could be used against him later. He didn’t even disagree. Just laughed and said he was doing his best.

For the life of me, I can’t understand it.

3ball is obviously the worst of those types. I made a topic once about how do we Account for how much someone shoots when we list points per game and he comes in and tells me it’s some roundabout way to suggest LeBron is actually a better scorer than Jordan when it was just a rehash of a topic I made in 2003 about James Worthy versus Dominique Wilkins.

The entire sports World needs a reset. Clear all agendas. No “Oh but last time you said…”.

Just get people back to being themselves. Maybe we can stop hearing people lie about thinking Chris Bosh was better then finals MVP Kobe and hear legitimate opinions.

I actually do care what most of you people have to say. I wouldn’t ask if I didn’t give a shit. Just annoying to see how often what people have to say is exactly what one would expect they think based on who they hate.

Nobody…and I do mean nobody… Is dumb enough to think Chris Bosh who wasn’t even all nba third team was better than this Kobe






but because he needs to make Bosh out to be as great as possible before joining the heat, he has to lie about thinking it. And being willing to be that dishonest about opinions, makes him think everyone else must be as well.

At that point, there’s almost no reason to even be talking to each other.

Even at its best sports talk isn’t exactly useful. But when it’s this colored by adherence to agendas, it is utterly ****ing pointless.

That’s a whole lotta words to dance around the fact that your criticisms with bosh aren’t consistent with other dudes you talk about.


You can say I have the agenda when you are obviously projecting.

Didn’t you call Bosh Antonio McDyess a few posts ago? You are gonna try to clutch your pearls and act like 3ball and I are trolls and come with this nonsense? Stop being a f.aggot.

[warriorfan]

Bosh's defensive box plus/minus was in the negative throughout his 7 years in Toronto and the Raptors had the worst defense in the NBA in 2010 with Bosh.

Using defense as some sort of decisive factor when arguing for Toronto Bosh is retarded.

DBPM is the worst stat. Creator of the stat even admits it. Google it, it’s in writing on basketball reference.

[SouBeachTalents]

Bosh is honestly MUCH closer to McDyess than he is to 2010 Kobe