MJ dunks over Hakeem

[Kblaze8855]

The difference between Bosh and guys like Dray or Parish is Bosh proved himself outside of a dynasty system. All NBA team member, multiple time All Star, led bum teams to playoff berths... etc.

I seriously doubt Parish or Dray ever do any of that on those lotto Toronto teams. Dray especially. But Parish too was kind of a stiff player to ever take a No. 1 scoring option role. Some guys just benefitted more from the winning spotlight. Chris Bosh wasn't really one of them. Miami made him look bad actually. Worse than what he was capable of.

Julius Randle is a multi time All Star all NBA second teamer who led a team a role players to home court when Brunson was on the Mavs. LaMarcus Aldridge led a 48 win blazer team when Brandon Roy started 23 games. Go look at the names on that roster and look at how many games they played. Gerald Wallace played 15 games. Andre Miller had 18 starts left in his career. Go look at the conversation around Jose Calderon when Arenas was mad he was getting All-Star consideration. He was definitely having a great year with Bosh compared to old Andre Miller. And La was all NBA five times and second team multiple times .It really isn’t something that automatically gets you remembered as some top player of your era.

you gotta have a hook. Something that stands out. 12 years of nothing in Toronto wouldn’t have done anything that seven years didn’t.

like I said, he was a great player. Like a huge list of other great players nobody cares about because they weren’t the special kind of great.

And the much discussed winning spotlight and championships didn’t change that.

he was both a productive loser and a selfless winner without his stock rising that much. At that point people just aren’t that blown away by the basketball being played.

You’re free to speculate as to why that is, but I think it’s the same reason most people like Bosch never grab the attention of the public. You just aren’t watching anything that special or unusual.

Great. But like Terry Cummings great. Truck Robinson great. Not the kind you’re gonna be talking about forever.

[ShawkFactory]

His PNR defense wasn’t “ground-breaking”. He was just good at it. Many people are, some better than he was.

[3ba11]

His PNR defense wasn’t “ground-breaking”. He was just good at it. Many people are, some better than he was.

Back in 2012, Bosh's defense was ground-breaking and it enabled the Heat's small-ball - this is well-known:

Again, this TANGIBLE defensive value of making small-ball possible in 2012 is more than enough to get perennial all-defense alongside MJ, especially since Pippen got all-defense for less tangible things and also since the media gave all the offensive credit to MJ, thereby needing to inflate Bulls' defenders.. This dynamic coupled with the unprecedented winning spotlight and Bosh's tangible value is more than enough to get him all-defense every year.

[ShawkFactory]

I think having Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, and Chris Bosh on a team together is what allowed the small ball to work

He played strong PNR defense, a lot of people did. The biggest aspect is that he did it selflessly. Several guys could have done that. Just because he was in a situation where it was very useful doesn’t mean no one could have done it. Others just weren’t in that situation.

The reason he never made defensive team because he wasn’t anything special as a man defender, and was weak against bigger guys.

[3ba11]

I think having Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, and Chris Bosh on a team together is what allowed the small ball to work

He played strong PNR defense, a lot of people did. The biggest aspect is that he did it selflessly. Several guys could have done that. Just because he was in a situation where it was very useful doesn’t mean no one could have done it. Others just weren’t in that situation.

The reason he never made defensive team because he wasn’t anything special as a man defender, and was weak against bigger guys.

All those "lucky situation" arguments can be made for Pippen, and much more so because Pippen wasn't All-NBA until he joined MJ and started winning titles, while Bosh was All-NBA with nothing..

Btw, Bosh was league MVP for a few weeks in 2015 without Lebron before his health started to get the better of him - so Bosh was good before and after bron-ball, while the opposite was true for Pippen and the triangle - he stunk before and after it

[warriorfan]

Julius Randle is a multi time All Star all NBA second teamer who led a team a role players to home court when Brunson was on the Mavs. LaMarcus Aldridge led a 48 win blazer team when Brandon Roy started 23 games. Go look at the names on that roster and look at how many games they played. Gerald Wallace played 15 games. Andre Miller had 18 starts left in his career. Go look at the conversation around Jose Calderon when Arenas was mad he was getting All-Star consideration. He was definitely having a great year with Bosh compared to old Andre Miller. And La was all NBA five times and second team multiple times .It really isn’t something that automatically gets you remembered as some top player of your era.

you gotta have a hook. Something that stands out. 12 years of nothing in Toronto wouldn’t have done anything that seven years didn’t.

like I said, he was a great player. Like a huge list of other great players nobody cares about because they weren’t the special kind of great.

And the much discussed winning spotlight and championships didn’t change that.

he was both a productive loser and a selfless winner without his stock rising that much. At that point people just aren’t that blown away by the basketball being played.

You’re free to speculate as to why that is, but I think it’s the same reason most people like Bosch never grab the attention of the public. You just aren’t watching anything that special or unusual.

Great. But like Terry Cummings great. Truck Robinson great. Not the kind you’re gonna be talking about forever.

bro, autistically spouting out a bunch of names isn’t gonna make Chris Bosh any worse of a player

[tpols]

Julius Randle is a multi time All Star all NBA second teamer who led a team a role players to home court when Brunson was on the Mavs. LaMarcus Aldridge led a 48 win blazer team when Brandon Roy started 23 games. Go look at the names on that roster and look at how many games they played. Gerald Wallace played 15 games. Andre Miller had 18 starts left in his career. Go look at the conversation around Jose Calderon when Arenas was mad he was getting All-Star consideration. He was definitely having a great year with Bosh compared to old Andre Miller. And La was all NBA five times and second team multiple times .It really isn’t something that automatically gets you remembered as some top player of your era.

you gotta have a hook. Something that stands out. 12 years of nothing in Toronto wouldn’t have done anything that seven years didn’t.

like I said, he was a great player. Like a huge list of other great players nobody cares about because they weren’t the special kind of great.

And the much discussed winning spotlight and championships didn’t change that.

he was both a productive loser and a selfless winner without his stock rising that much. At that point people just aren’t that blown away by the basketball being played.

You’re free to speculate as to why that is, but I think it’s the same reason most people like Bosch never grab the attention of the public. You just aren’t watching anything that special or unusual.

Great. But like Terry Cummings great. Truck Robinson great. Not the kind you’re gonna be talking about forever.

I'm not sure how being compared to Blazers LMA or Julius Randle when he put up 25/10 on elite efficiency is a nothing burger.

Those two have had seasons as good or better than some years of prime pippen. That's why we are trying to highlight their games because they didn't have the privilege of the winning spotlight to the extent pippen did.

[warriorfan]

Forgive me if I’m wrong Blaze but aren’t you one of those who blast the ring counting culture from fans? Pretty sure i’ve seen you simp for players who never won a ring and about how it’s not fair, they are still the same skill of player but there are things out of their control….


Then you come out here with this energy trying to fade Bosh like a mother ****er because he played with straight trash in Toronto for years

[ShawkFactory]

All those "lucky situation" arguments can be made for Pippen, and much more so because Pippen wasn't All-NBA until he joined MJ and started winning titles, while Bosh was All-NBA with nothing..

Btw, Bosh was league MVP for a few weeks in 2015 without Lebron before his health started to get the better of him - so Bosh was good before and after bron-ball, while the opposite was true for Pippen and the triangle - he stunk before and after it

He was drafted to the Bulls?

[ShawkFactory]

I'm not sure how being compared to Blazers LMA or Julius Randle when he put up 25/10 on elite efficiency is a nothing burger.

Those two have had seasons as good or better than some years of prime pippen. That's why we are trying to highlight their games because they didn't have the privilege of the winning spotlight to the extent pippen did.

LMA? Meh..perhaps. Randle? Hard negative.

[RRR3]

tpols and warriorfan don't believe a single thing they're arguing in this thread.

[Phoenix]

He was drafted to the Bulls?

Lol you caught that too? He makes it seem like Pippen had 7-8 years in the league, got traded to the Bulls and THEN he becomes an all-nba level player.

The dumbest threads get the most attention here. Well done OP, you're the only reason this forum is still running.

[ILLsmak]

Lol you caught that too? He makes it seem like Pippen had 7-8 years in the league, got traded to the Bulls and THEN he becomes an all-nba level player.

The dumbest threads get the most attention here. Well done OP, you're the only reason this forum is still running.

Go to the Shaq vs Bron thread. haha, when people start talking about something interesting (tho that's not so interesting,) gotta stay with that. Just like Caitlin is THE TRUTH thread. The thing about 3ball is he is persistent. Gotta be as persistent. Gotta work for good bball discussion!!

-Smak

[Kblaze8855]

Forgive me if I’m wrong Blaze but aren’t you one of those who blast the ring counting culture from fans? Pretty sure i’ve seen you simp for players who never won a ring and about how it’s not fair, they are still the same skill of player but there are things out of their control….


Then you come out here with this energy trying to fade Bosh like a mother ****er because he played with straight trash in Toronto for years

I would love just once for the “But didn’t you say…” Argument to not come from someone guilty of exactly what they are complaining about. Just once. On any subject. You have been talking for years about Pau playoff record before Kobe happy to ignore he won 50 games with a 13ppg James Posey as a second option in a historically tough west. “Oh but didn’t you say…” has a 100% “Wait…but didn’t YOU say…” rate.

Anyway…no. I was saying the same thing about Bosh before he even had the losing seasons in question. He just happened to go on to not do anything worth talking about to support me. I found a topic from like 08 where I listed 22 people I’d rather have and it expanded to 28 with other people’s suggestions. It included plenty of people who also weren’t winning.

Just didn’t see anything that great. It is funny watching people like you who back people using team success to prove your evaluations accurate throw it away to push agendas though. People are really picky with that. Wins and losses tell the whole story except when it doesn’t.

About the only player I give “He’s just a winner” status is Bill Russell. And he was carved from a block of pure victory so you can’t blame me for that.

I enjoy pointing out when “He just makes his team win” types choose to go the other way though.

I can give it a pass when the person in question at least did win though.

When it’s applied to people who did nothing but lose I’m gonna **** with them about it.

I can look the other way if you wanna “He just….wins!” a winner. It isn’t that simple but there’s no need to be a dick about it and fight with fans. People out here wanting to use being a winner as an argument for dudes who never won though. That shit is my bat signal.

[warriorfan]

I would love just once for the “But didn’t you say…” Argument to not come from someone guilty of exactly what they are complaining about. Just once. On any subject. You have been talking for years about Pau playoff record before Kobe happy to ignore he won 50 games with a 13ppg James Posey as a second option in a historically tough west. “Oh but didn’t you say…” has a 100% “Wait…but didn’t YOU say…” rate.

Anyway…no. I was saying the same thing about Bosh before he even had the losing seasons in question. He just happened to go on to not do anything worth talking about to support me. I found a topic from like 08 where I listed 22 people I’d rather have and it expanded to 28 with other people’s suggestions. It included plenty of people who also weren’t winning.

Just didn’t see anything that great. It is funny watching people like you who back people using team success to prove your evaluations accurate throw it away to push agendas though. People are really picky with that. Wins and losses tell the whole story except when it doesn’t.

About the only player I give “He’s just a winner” status is Bill Russell. And he was carved from a block of pure victory so you can’t blame me for that.

I enjoy pointing out when “He just makes his team win” types choose to go the other way though.

I can give it a pass when the person in question at least did win though.

When it’s applied to people who did nothing but lose I’m gonna **** with them about it.

I can look the other way if you wanna “He just….wins!” a winner. It isn’t that simple but there’s no need to be a dick about it and fight with fans. People out here wanting to use being a winner as an argument for dudes who never won though. That shit is my bat signal.

Only ever brought up pau not winning a playoff game when dudes would try to shit on Love and Bosh for the same thing.


Once again Im pretty sure i’ve seen you simp for guys who get shit on for not having team success

Just interesting you change your tune with bosh

just saying