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3 for 6 while hand-picking the preseason favorite super-team for 6 years (11-16')
Lebron's collusions lasted longer and won more chips than Durant's
Durant's only mistake was waiting 6 years to respond
Ultimately, both guys gained a major advantage by colluding at unprecedented levels, so the media simply lies by shitting on Durant's rings while praising Lebron's
Last edited by 3ba11; 09-25-2022 at 02:53 PM.
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Re: 3 for 6 while hand-picking the preseason favorite super-team for 6 years (11-16')
Outside of 2011, I would like to hear you explain the years that Lebron should have won titles in during that time period.
2015 was ruined by injuries.
And the 2014 Heat were an old team with basically zero depth that had a massively declining Wade while going up against a all-time team who they barely escaped the year prior
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Embiid > Jokic
Re: 3 for 6 while hand-picking the preseason favorite super-team for 6 years (11-16')
Originally Posted by coastalmarker99
Outside of 2011, I would like to hear you explain the years that Lebron should have won titles in during that time period.
2015 was ruined by injuries.
And the 2014 Heat were an old team with basically zero depth that had a massively declining Wade while going up against a all-time team who they barely escaped the year prior
LeBron's had 6 legitimate title contenders in his career
2011-13 Heat
2016-17 Cavs
2020 Lakers
Several of the seasons post 2010 were ruined by injury (2015, 2021 & 2022), and his 2018 & 2019 squads were not even close to title contenders. People might argue 2014, but Wade was a shell of himself and absolutely atrocious in the Finals, while a lot of the supporting cast was ancient.
So of the 6 years he had a championship caliber roster, he won 4 championships, of the other 2 seasons one was completely on him, and the other he ran into arguably the GOAT team.
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Re: 3 for 6 while hand-picking the preseason favorite super-team for 6 years (11-16')
Originally Posted by SouBeachTalents
LeBron's had 6 legitimate title contenders in his career
2011-13 Heat
2016-17 Cavs
2020 Lakers
Several of the seasons post 2010 were ruined by injury (2015, 2021 & 2022), and his 2018 & 2019 squads were not even close to title contenders. People might argue 2014, but Wade was a shell of himself and absolutely atrocious in the Finals, while a lot of the supporting cast was ancient.
So of the 6 years he had a championship caliber roster, he won 4 championships, of the other 2 seasons one was completely on him, and the other he ran into arguably the GOAT team.
Imagine how many rings Lebron would have by now.
If he was drafted to the Pistons or Memphis in 2003 instead of that Cavs team who wasted the first seven years of his career.
Last edited by coastalmarker99; 09-25-2022 at 05:08 PM.
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Re: 3 for 6 while hand-picking the preseason favorite super-team for 6 years (11-16')
.
Comparing sidekick help while trying to 3-peat
Playoffs
14' Wade..... 18.5 PER.. 0.086 ws/48.. 1.6 obpm
93' Pippen... 16.9 PER.. 0.083 ws/48.. 1.1 obpm
Per 100 Possessions
14' Wade..... 28.6 pts.. 6.2 ast.. 56.0 ts.. 106 ortg
93' Pippen... 26.2 pts.. 7.4 ast.. 50.0 ts.. 102 ortg
* In addition to higher PER, WS/48, efficiency and pace-adjusted scoring, Wade was also a "1b" equal-scoring partner to Lebron in the ECF, so Lebron didn't have to defeat maximum defensive attention (didn't have to carry scoring load)
CONCLUSION: People complain about 13-16' Wade because he'd fallen to prime Pippen level (21/5/5 and 21 PER)
Originally Posted by SouBeachTalents
LeBron's had 6 legitimate title contenders in his career
2011-13 Heat
2016-17 Cavs
2020 Lakers
Several of the seasons post 2010 were ruined by injury (2015, 2021 & 2022), and his 2018 & 2019 squads were not even close to title contenders. People might argue 2014, but Wade was a shell of himself and absolutely atrocious in the Finals, while a lot of the supporting cast was ancient.
So of the 6 years he had a championship caliber roster, he won 4 championships, of the other 2 seasons one was completely on him, and the other he ran into arguably the GOAT team.
The 2014 Heat were pursuing a historic 3-peat and the preseason favorite for the 4th straight year.
Wade was a "1b" equal-scoring partner to Lebron in the 14' ECF, so Lebron didn't have to defeat maximum defensive attention to win the conference (didn't have to carry scoring load).. Wade fell off in the Finals in part because the Spurs had perfected their exploitation of the Heat strategy (the weak fit between Lebron and Wade, as famously detailed by SB Nation).
Furthermore, Bosh's capacity to step up had been robbed because Lebron's skillset reduced him to spot-up role.. So there was no relief from an underperforming Wade in the Finals when there should've been in the form of Bosh, or Lebron simply going for for 41 ppg like 93' Jordan.
Ultimately, the 15' Heat missed the playoffs by 1/2 game because Wade was injured, but Wade rebuilt the Heat in 16' by nearly making the ECF just like the 94' Bulls - the difference was that Wade was a clutch assassin, while Pippen had the worst clutch literally of all-time.. Again, you guys complain about 13-16' Wade because he'd fallen to prime Pippen level (21 PER and 21/5/5).. So now you know why I complain about Pippen - he was like 13-16' Wade (worse infact).
Btw, Lakers were preseason favorites in 2021 but lost in 1st Round.. lol... Yet you guys make fun of rookie Jordan losing with 8 seeds.. It's easy to forget that weak brand of ball makes favored talent underachieve, so Lebron has the worst brand ever since his preseason favorites (favored talent) fell to underdog or loser in 11, 12', 14', 15', 16', 21', 22'.... he's the unquestioned king of weak brands that cause favored talent to underachieve.
Last edited by 3ba11; 09-25-2022 at 06:51 PM.
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Embiid > Jokic
Re: 3 for 6 while hand-picking the preseason favorite super-team for 6 years (11-16')
Originally Posted by 3ba11
.
Comparing sidekick help while trying to 3-peat
Playoffs
14' Wade..... 18.5 PER.. 0.086 ws/48.. 1.6 obpm
93' Pippen... 16.9 PER.. 0.083 ws/48.. 1.1 obpm
Per 100 Possessions
14' Wade..... 28.6 pts.. 6.2 ast.. 56.0 ts.. 106 ortg
93' Pippen... 26.2 pts.. 7.4 ast.. 50.0 ts.. 102 ortg
* In addition to higher PER, WS/48, efficiency and pace-adjusted scoring, Wade was also a "1b" equal-scoring partner to Lebron in the ECF, so Lebron didn't have to defeat maximum defensive attention (didn't have to carry scoring load)
CONCLUSION: People complain about 13-16' Wade because he'd fallen to prime Pippen level (21/5/5 and 21 PER)
The 2014 Heat were pursuing a historic 3-peat and the preseason favorite for the 4th straight year.
Wade was a "1b" equal-scoring partner to Lebron in the 14' ECF, so Lebron didn't have to defeat maximum defensive attention to win the conference (didn't have to carry scoring load).. Wade fell off in the Finals in part because the Spurs had perfected their exploitation of the Heat strategy (the weak fit between Lebron and Wade, as famously detailed by SB Nation).
Furthermore, Bosh's capacity to step up had been robbed because Lebron's skillset reduced him to spot-up role.. So there was no relief from an underperforming Wade in the Finals when there should've been in the form of Bosh, or Lebron simply going for for 41 ppg like 93' Jordan.
Ultimately, the 15' Heat missed the playoffs by 1/2 game because Wade was injured, but Wade rebuilt the Heat in 16' by nearly making the ECF just like the 94' Bulls - the difference was that Wade was a clutch assassin, while Pippen had the worst clutch literally of all-time.. Again, you guys complain about 13-16' Wade because he'd fallen to prime Pippen level (21 PER and 21/5/5).. So now you know why I complain about Pippen - he was like 13-16' Wade (worse infact).
Btw, Lakers were preseason favorites in 2021 but lost in 1st Round.. lol... Yet you guys make fun of rookie Jordan losing with 8 seeds.. It's easy to forget that weak brand of ball makes favored talent underachieve, so Lebron has the worst brand ever since his preseason favorites (favored talent) fell to underdog or loser in 11, 12', 14', 15', 16', 21', 22'.... he's the unquestioned king of weak brands that cause favored talent to underachieve.
1-9
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Re: 3 for 6 while hand-picking the preseason favorite super-team for 6 years (11-16')
Originally Posted by SouBeachTalents
1-9
Check out the team assist gap in the Finals - that tells the story of Lebron's low assist teams...
The low assist teams and weak brand is easy to trace.. Lebron's frontcourt ball-dominance represents a 2nd player in the floor with a point guard hold-time - these 2 point guard lineups give teammates less hold-time and assists than normal 1 point guard lineups, so the TEAM has low assists and struggles on the championship level (4/10).. carry on
Ultimately, this rudimentary "luka" skillset lacks the teammate development, fits, and brand of ball to win organically, and must therefore be a talent-based winner (team-hopper, all-star team strag)
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Embiid > Jokic
Re: 3 for 6 while hand-picking the preseason favorite super-team for 6 years (11-16')
Originally Posted by 3ba11
Check out the team assist gap in the Finals - that tells the story of Lebron's low assist teams...
The low assist teams and weak brand is easy to trace.. Lebron's frontcourt ball-dominance represents a 2nd player in the floor with a point guard hold-time - these 2 point guard lineups give teammates less hold-time and assists than normal 1 point guard lineups, so the TEAM has low assists and struggles on the championship level (4/10).. carry on
Ultimately, this rudimentary "luka" skillset lacks the teammate development, fits, and brand of ball to win organically, and must therefore be a talent-based winner (team-hopper, all-star team strag)
1-9
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Re: 3 for 6 while hand-picking the preseason favorite super-team for 6 years (11-16')
Nobody was saying in 1993 that Pippen should retire as they were doing for Wade in 2014.
Teams win titles not individual players as basketball is not tennis or golf.
Kareem and Wilt were two of the most dominant players of their era on both sides of the ball and yet both only won one ring in the 70's and 1960's
Jordan was also getting embarrassed in the playoffs before Pippen came around.
Last edited by coastalmarker99; 09-25-2022 at 07:22 PM.
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Re: 3 for 6 while hand-picking the preseason favorite super-team for 6 years (11-16')
Swap Pippen for Jr Smith as you have said before.
And Jordan most likely finishes his career with one or two rings.
He loses to Magic in 1991 without Scottie's 20, 9, 7, 2, and 1.
He loses to New York in 1993.
He loses to the sonics in 1996.
He loses to the Jazz in 1997 and 1998.
Last edited by coastalmarker99; 09-25-2022 at 07:30 PM.
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Re: 3 for 6 while hand-picking the preseason favorite super-team for 6 years (11-16')
Let's take a look at Lebron's ball dominance results from 2009 to 2020.
10 finals.
4 titles
two 66 win seasons
one 60 win season
11 conference finals,
Every team Lebron lost to during that period went on to make the finals or win a title.
The only reason why he didn't win even more during that period was that outside of 2011 his teams were just out matched.
The fact that you expect Lebron with a bad back to beat a 67-win team with role players around him.
Or beat the most stacked team of All-time in 2017 speaks volumes about how great you truly think he is.
Last edited by coastalmarker99; 09-25-2022 at 07:37 PM.
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Re: 3 for 6 while hand-picking the preseason favorite super-team for 6 years (11-16')
Last edited by 3ba11; 09-25-2022 at 07:43 PM.
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NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: 3 for 6 while hand-picking the preseason favorite super-team for 6 years (11-16')
Never forget OP said Bron = MJ back in 2013.
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Re: 3 for 6 while hand-picking the preseason favorite super-team for 6 years (11-16')
You never point out that Pippen despite his low FG% was the favourite to take out the 1998 finals MVP before his back injury.
https://www.deseret.com/1998/6/11/19...nba-finals-mvp
Pippen even impressed Jerry Sloan so much that he praised him after the game.
"He was sensational," said the Jazz's coach.
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NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: 3 for 6 while hand-picking the preseason favorite super-team for 6 years (11-16')
Originally Posted by coastalmarker99
"Defensively, he puts tremendous pressure on you. . . . He caused us a lot of problems, I think everybody is aware of that. We're aware of it," Sloan said. "We have trouble with him every time we play. And I don't know what more you can say. You can put him on any player on the floor, and he's going to do a terrific job defensively."
Why does 3ball always ignore Pippen's defense? lol
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