Wilt Chamberlain: 24 Inch Vertical

[CavaliersFTW]

I love the headlines on that.

ISH headline worthy

[Cobra Kai]

Wilt is a legend.

[La Frescobaldi]

1. Yes, quite easily. Though why would he want his head to hit the ring? He's not going to be trying to get his head near it, so given that only 2% of his career field goals exists on film, and even less of his overall career, opportunities to see his head at maximum height near the rim are going to be slim to none. Only a few pics and clips exist of him jumping high in close vicinity of the ring, but nevertheless they definitely exist and don't really leave room for reasonable doubt.



2. Not that this has to do with your overall point you are trying to make, but Converse All Star shoes are not 1 inch thick, those type of basketball shoes back then were wafer thin compared to modern shoes. They were probably more like a half inch thick.

The articles in that old rag were most excellent.

I happen to have a few copies of that magazine; PBH was a welcome change from having Bob Ryan's Unceasing Stream of Celtics Vomit forced down your throat.

Here's some of what the writers at PBH were saying about Chamberlain, not in that copy but in 1968:

..... "Did he average 50 points in a game for a whole season? Ridiculous. He shot too much and 'loafed' on defense. Did he (after of a couple of years) pay more attention to defense? See, he wasn't scoring the way he should. Did he play every minute of every game? Silly and selfish, because he'd be more effective with a rest once in a while. Did he take (and make) fadeaway jump shots? Stupid, because he should turn in toward the basket. Did he go to the basket? Then his field goal percentage shouldn't count, and besides, he was charging all the time and they wouldn't call it. Did Bill Russell hang back after clearing the defensive board and triggering a fast break? Great for Russell, who was a wizard and a genius. Did Wilt do the same thing (only to have the fast break misfire on the way to the basket)? What a lazy player!
And so it went, for the better part of six years.
The truth of course, was quite different and not all mysterious. It all had to do with personnel.
The Celtics had great teams, balanced and deep and well-rounded.
Chamberlain seldom had comparable material to play with. When he had good teammates, his team gave Boston a good battle and overwhelmed everyone else. When he didn't, defeats were inescapable.
In the first couple of seasons, when Wilt was raising scoring totals beyond anyone's fantasies, he was acting on the orders of his owner, Eddie Gottlieb. His employer wanted him to play every second and to score as much as he could. That was exactly what he did. If it led to an unbalanced type of game, it wasn't Wilt's demand that was being met, but the owner's."
cont.......

[La Frescobaldi]

continued.........
".........Later when Paul Arizin retired and the team moved to San Francisco, Wilt was surrounded by a weak-shooting cast. In that circumstance, if he didn't do most of the shooting, the team's chances of scoring were reduced. If he (or his coaches) had listened to the criticism then, they would have been going against their own best interests - which was, of course, exactly what the critics on other teams wanted.
........ The big change in him - the thing that has been triggering stories about 'the new Chamberlain' for three years - is his defensive involvement. He has mastered the "Russell-style" defense, which means blocking shots on those who drive in, absolute control of defensive rebounds, a quick pass out to start the fast break, and bruising man-to-man defense against the opposing center.
To some extent, this represents skills gradually acquired with experience. But to a larger extent, it relects altered circumstances. Wilt can now afford to concentrate on the defensive half of the floor, becuase his team has others who can score, and becuase his present employers want him to play this way. While he is not as quick, relexively, as Russell and probably not as cerebral in aanalysis of moves, he is so much stronger and bigger- and quick enough - that he now plays Russell's game more effectively than Russell himself.........."

**************************

Which is 180 degrees out of phase with people who have only read articles from the Celtic fan-base.
The reality was, John Havlicek and Sam Jones were increasingly important to Boston's chances and the whole country knew that.
The reality was, Chamberlain demolished Russell in almost every game from '66 on, and it was there for everybody to see on national tv.
The reality was very different from the fantasy land of Ryan and those guys, and every fan in the country who wasn't a shameless Boston homer knew it at the time.

Which is yet another reason why people who believe that drivel from Bill Simmons should understand that Simmons consciously and deliberately avoided printing anything that supported Chamberlain and focused solely on leading the reader to Russell's side.
And that. is utterly disgraceful in a writer - especially one as well-known as Simmons.

[Psileas]

continued.........
".........Later when Paul Arizin retired and the team moved to San Francisco, Wilt was surrounded by a weak-shooting cast. In that circumstance, if he didn't do most of the shooting, the team's chances of scoring were reduced. If he (or his coaches) had listened to the criticism then, they would have been going against their own best interests - which was, of course, exactly what the critics on other teams wanted.
........ The big change in him - the thing that has been triggering stories about 'the new Chamberlain' for three years - is his defensive involvement. He has mastered the "Russell-style" defense, which means blocking shots on those who drive in, absolute control of defensive rebounds, a quick pass out to start the fast break, and bruising man-to-man defense against the opposing center.
To some extent, this represents skills gradually acquired with experience. But to a larger extent, it relects altered circumstances. Wilt can now afford to concentrate on the defensive half of the floor, becuase his team has others who can score, and becuase his present employers want him to play this way. While he is not as quick, relexively, as Russell and probably not as cerebral in aanalysis of moves, he is so much stronger and bigger- and quick enough - that he now plays Russell's game more effectively than Russell himself.........."

**************************

Which is 180 degrees out of phase with people who have only read articles from the Celtic fan-base.
The reality was, John Havlicek and Sam Jones were increasingly important to Boston's chances and the whole country knew that.
The reality was, Chamberlain demolished Russell in almost every game from '66 on, and it was there for everybody to see on national tv.
The reality was very different from the fantasy land of Ryan and those guys, and every fan in the country who wasn't a shameless Boston homer knew it at the time.

Which is yet another reason why people who believe that drivel from Bill Simmons should understand that Simmons consciously and deliberately avoided printing anything that supported Chamberlain and focused solely on leading the reader to Russell's side.
And that. is utterly disgraceful in a writer - especially one as well-known as Simmons.

Great additions. And what you mentioned at the end is the reason is why I told some time ago that we consider even the little Wilt vs Russell footage that exists and asked who in people's own eyes outplayed the other.
What exists of Wilt vs Russell is:

1) 1 half from Game 4 of the 1964 Finals
2) 1 half from Game 4 of the 1967 Division Finals
3) The 1969 ASG (the only game that fully exists)
4) 1 quarter from Game 7 of the 1969 Finals

Most admitted that Wilt was usually outplaying Russell in these clips. And yet Russell's teams still won every single one of the games shown, which isn't even a fair proportion compared to reality when Wilt's teams won 2 out of 5 games vs Russell's.

Btw, I wonder, is there any single NBA game of Wilt available now when his team wins, apart from Game 5 of the '72 Finals and the '72 ASG?

[DatAsh]

continued.........
".........Later when Paul Arizin retired and the team moved to San Francisco, Wilt was surrounded by a weak-shooting cast. In that circumstance, if he didn't do most of the shooting, the team's chances of scoring were reduced. If he (or his coaches) had listened to the criticism then, they would have been going against their own best interests - which was, of course, exactly what the critics on other teams wanted.
........ The big change in him - the thing that has been triggering stories about 'the new Chamberlain' for three years - is his defensive involvement. He has mastered the "Russell-style" defense, which means blocking shots on those who drive in, absolute control of defensive rebounds, a quick pass out to start the fast break, and bruising man-to-man defense against the opposing center.
To some extent, this represents skills gradually acquired with experience. But to a larger extent, it relects altered circumstances. Wilt can now afford to concentrate on the defensive half of the floor, becuase his team has others who can score, and becuase his present employers want him to play this way. While he is not as quick, relexively, as Russell and probably not as cerebral in aanalysis of moves, he is so much stronger and bigger- and quick enough - that he now plays Russell's game more effectively than Russell himself.........."

**************************

Which is 180 degrees out of phase with people who have only read articles from the Celtic fan-base.
The reality was, John Havlicek and Sam Jones were increasingly important to Boston's chances and the whole country knew that.
The reality was, Chamberlain demolished Russell in almost every game from '66 on, and it was there for everybody to see on national tv.
The reality was very different from the fantasy land of Ryan and those guys, and every fan in the country who wasn't a shameless Boston homer knew it at the time.

Which is yet another reason why people who believe that drivel from Bill Simmons should understand that Simmons consciously and deliberately avoided printing anything that supported Chamberlain and focused solely on leading the reader to Russell's side.
And that. is utterly disgraceful in a writer - especially one as well-known as Simmons.

You should post more of this stuff.

[jongib369]

1. Yes, quite easily. Though why would he want his head to hit the ring? He's not going to be trying to get his head near it, so given that only 2% of his career field goals exists on film, and even less of his overall career, opportunities to see his head at maximum height near the rim are going to be slim to none. Only a few pics and clips exist of him jumping high in close vicinity of the ring, but nevertheless they definitely exist and don't really leave room for reasonable doubt.



2. Not that this has to do with your overall point you are trying to make, but Converse All Star shoes are not 1 inch thick, those type of basketball shoes back then were wafer thin compared to modern shoes. They were probably more like a half inch thick.

Why would anyone in their right mind want to almost accidentally smash their head on that thing when you have a wingspan longer than Yaos and a standing reach that's just a half inch smaller?

[CavaliersFTW]

http://youtu.be/UAmuvwsDKBk

Some of the many new clips to be found in the next revision of "Wilt scouting tool".

Something like 10-15 new field goals have been found that will be added (I didn't count yet, but there's a handful of new ones)

I'm going to add about 5 to 6 minutes more footage to the "physical tools and athleticism" preface (which this is a short preview of) which includes as you can see, just a short preview of his defensive prowess.

I'm thinking about adding his passing highlights to this next revision. Which means it could finally cover the full range of Wilt's offensive capability and reveal why defenses had to be covering him a certain way (scoring highlights alone don't reveal how dangerous he was on offense). The full court outlet passes video I recently uploaded was just a sample of organizing/categorizing a specific type of pass. So expect this next version to be the first hour + long Wilt 'highlight' video ever made.

Anyways, check out that jump recovery, 290-300lbs and he would block a shot or attempt to, and recover almost immediately and be right up over your next shot in a fraction of a second. Terrifying stuff if you are trying to get inside and score. He also looks physical as **** on defense, like he's not concerned about landing on you if you are dumb enough to get underneath him.

[jongib369]

http://youtu.be/UAmuvwsDKBk

Some of the many new clips to be found in the next revision of "Wilt scouting tool".

Something like 10-15 new field goals have been found that will be added (I didn't count yet, but there's a handful of new ones)

I'm going to add about 5 to 6 minutes more footage to the "physical tools and athleticism" preface (which this is a short preview of) which includes as you can see, just a short preview of his defensive prowess.

I'm thinking about adding his passing highlights to this next revision. Which means it could finally cover the full range of Wilt's offensive capability and reveal why defenses had to be covering him a certain way (scoring highlights alone don't reveal how dangerous he was on offense). The full court outlet passes video I recently uploaded was just a sample of organizing/categorizing a specific type of pass. So expect this next version to be the first hour + long Wilt 'highlight' video ever made.

Anyways, check out that jump recovery, 290-300lbs and he would block a shot or attempt to, and recover almost immediately and be right up over your next shot in a fraction of a second. Terrifying stuff if you are trying to get inside and score. He also looks physical as **** on defense, like he's not concerned about landing on you if you are dumb enough to get underneath him.

Where did you find the clip at 2:14-15?

[fpliii]

http://youtu.be/UAmuvwsDKBk

Some of the many new clips to be found in the next revision of "Wilt scouting tool".

Something like 10-15 new field goals have been found that will be added (I didn't count yet, but there's a handful of new ones)

I'm going to add about 5 to 6 minutes more footage to the "physical tools and athleticism" preface (which this is a short preview of) which includes as you can see, just a short preview of his defensive prowess.

I'm thinking about adding his passing highlights to this next revision. Which means it could finally cover the full range of Wilt's offensive capability and reveal why defenses had to be covering him a certain way (scoring highlights alone don't reveal how dangerous he was on offense). The full court outlet passes video I recently uploaded was just a sample of organizing/categorizing a specific type of pass. So expect this next version to be the first hour + long Wilt 'highlight' video ever made.

Anyways, check out that jump recovery, 290-300lbs and he would block a shot or attempt to, and recover almost immediately and be right up over your next shot in a fraction of a second. Terrifying stuff if you are trying to get inside and score. He also looks physical as **** on defense, like he's not concerned about landing on you if you are dumb enough to get underneath him.

Looking forward to it.

Where'd you find the new footage?

[DatAsh]

http://youtu.be/UAmuvwsDKBk

Some of the many new clips to be found in the next revision of "Wilt scouting tool".

Something like 10-15 new field goals have been found that will be added (I didn't count yet, but there's a handful of new ones)

I'm going to add about 5 to 6 minutes more footage to the "physical tools and athleticism" preface (which this is a short preview of) which includes as you can see, just a short preview of his defensive prowess.

I'm thinking about adding his passing highlights to this next revision. Which means it could finally cover the full range of Wilt's offensive capability and reveal why defenses had to be covering him a certain way (scoring highlights alone don't reveal how dangerous he was on offense). The full court outlet passes video I recently uploaded was just a sample of organizing/categorizing a specific type of pass. So expect this next version to be the first hour + long Wilt 'highlight' video ever made.

Anyways, check out that jump recovery, 290-300lbs and he would block a shot or attempt to, and recover almost immediately and be right up over your next shot in a fraction of a second. Terrifying stuff if you are trying to get inside and score. He also looks physical as **** on defense, like he's not concerned about landing on you if you are dumb enough to get underneath him.

Really looking forward to all of it, especially the defensive stuff.

[eliteballer]

1. Yes, quite easily. Though why would he want his head to hit the ring? He's not going to be trying to get his head near it, so given that only 2% of his career field goals exists on film, and even less of his overall career, opportunities to see his head at maximum height near the rim are going to be slim to none. Only a few pics and clips exist of him jumping high in close vicinity of the ring, but nevertheless they definitely exist and don't really leave room for reasonable doubt.



2. Not that this has to do with your overall point you are trying to make, but Converse All Star shoes are not 1 inch thick, those type of basketball shoes back then were wafer thin compared to modern shoes. They were probably more like a half inch thick.

This doesn't prove anything and I'll show you why:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3qMJCS4Xck&t=3m45s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3qMJCS4Xck&t=3m55s

[CavaliersFTW]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...4&postcount=21

My how times have changed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zirehYtoxoI

[G0ATbe]

That was probably considered ridiculously impressive in that era.

[kshutts1]

Wow, this is an old bump. And I'm not reading it all, but this jumped out at me (I changed formatting as the original post, on page 4, was a quote itself)...

(Quoted)I've heard of him triple jumping 50 feet (which depends a lot on strides and not vertical) but never long jumping 22 feet.(end quote)

It's actually found in the same source with the "24 inch" claim (Sporting News), which further disproves this claim. I quote:

Quote:
Wilt is not a one-sport man, either. At Overbrook High School in Philly, he high jumped 6 feet, 6 inches, ran the 440 in 49.0 seconds and the 880 in 1:58.3, put the shot 53 feet, 4 inches, broad jumped 22 feet. Bill Easton, Jayhawks track boss, predicts Wilt will reach 7 feet in the high jump if he concentrates on it.

LOL at someone "broad jumping" 22 feet. I call bull.
Aside from that, man I wish I could have seen Wilt in action. Seems like he was an impressive dude.