Sir Charles or Kobe who is greater?

**Sir Charles** · 08-01-2008, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by C-Webb4

Simple response, if Prime Barkley was unguardable, and the best player in the league, then why doesn't he have any rings?

What a stupid statemant...

If Jordan was unguardable and the best player in the SG spot then why did he not win championships in the 80s?

**Sir Charles** · 08-01-2008, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by C-Webb4

Neither did MJ.

MJ had PRIME PIPPEN = The Best Most Complete SF/PG/Point Forward in the League not to mention a Top 3 Defensive PF in the 90s in Prime Grant. Plus Prime Paxon, Prime Kerr and then even Prime Rodman and Prime Kukoc

**C-Webb4** · 08-01-2008, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by Sir Charles

MJ had PRIME PIPPEN = The Best Most Complete SF/PG/Point Forward in the League not to mention a Top 3 Defensive PF in the 90s in Grant. Plus Paxon, Kerr and then even Rodman and Kukoc

Why do people always feel the need to make the "Jordan needed Pippen" argument. Jordan was inarguably as good or better in every aspect of the game, scoring, defense, rebounding, shot blocking, steals, everything. Was Pippen one of the all-time greats? Yeah definitely, but he couldn't do it without Jordan either, and we saw that. Basketball is a team sport and it's ridiculous to detract from someone's tremendous accomplishments by saying that it's "because" of his teammates that he won, and that it had nothing to do with his tremendous skill level.

**C-Webb4** · 08-01-2008, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Sir Charles

MJ had PRIME PIPPEN = The Best Most Complete SF/PG/Point Forward in the League not to mention a Top 3 Defensive PF in the 90s in Prime Grant. Plus Prime Paxon, Prime Kerr and then even Prime Rodman and Prime Kukoc

Prime Kerr? oh please, prime kerr, and prime paxon are replacable, and prime horace Grant at best was putting up 15/11/1, so you are vastly overrating his teammates.

**Allstar24** · 08-01-2008, 04:39 PM

I don't like losers so my vote goes to the guy with 3 championships. I don't see what major accomplishments Barkley had as a basketball player other than to be a guy who's never won a ring and a guy who's never been called the best player in the league, even in his prime. Kobe's been there, done that.
I guess the people who are picking Barkley can empathize with him because they see a part of themselves in losers like Barkley. I understand their reasons...but I like winners so I'm going with Kobe :)

**TheProphet** · 08-01-2008, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by Sir Charles

Kobe is Great but not even close to the TOP NBA GREATS..

Agreed with this statement. Replace Kobe with T-Mac during prime Shaq, same results=three championship rings.

**WillyJakk** · 08-01-2008, 04:40 PM

Sir Charles Barkley's sphincter never shrunk during a big game, i.e. Kobe Bryant 2008 NBA Finals, 2005 NBA Playoffs (the I'm not gonna shoot game), the 2004 NBA Finals (the I'm not gonna shoot game), the 2004 NBA Playoffs (the Doug Christie played great D I'm not gonna shoot game)...that's why:

Prime Charles Barkley > Prime Kobe Bryant

P.S. I like Kobe Bryant, too. I think he's a helluva player.

**TheProphet** · 08-01-2008, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Allstar24

I don't like losers so my vote goes to the guy with 3 championships. I don't see what major accomplishments Barkley had as a basketball player other than to be a guy who's never won a ring and a guy who's never been called the best player in the league, even in his prime. Kobe's been there, done that.
I guess the people who are picking Barkley can empathize with him because they see a part of themselves in losers like Barkley. I understand their reasons...but I like winners so I'm going with Kobe :)

He's such a winner in the Lakers last game in the post season. Remember the blowouts against the Suns and Celtics. Kobe told the Celts fans "It's not over" in game six only to eat his words with a 39 point defeat. You take winners. How about telling the fans "It's not over" and losing by 30+ points.

**Sir Charles** · 08-01-2008, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by C-Webb4

Prime Kerr? oh please, prime kerr, and prime paxon are replacable, and prime horace Grant at best was putting up 15/11/1, so you are vastly overrating his teammates.

Kerr and Paxon happened to the both Top Spot Shooters in the 90s and Grant`s stats don`t say **** because he was on of the Best or the Best Defending Powerforward in the 90s (something stats can`t even show for ) not to mention Mr Grant after getting traded (total disrespect by the Bulls) just the year after was battling for a championship with a young Magic Team, and that team defeated Jordan-Pippens Bulls . Later on with the Lakers . Wherever this Grant went contending championships appeared. Ohhh and Lets not forget Mr Rodman another Another Top Defending Powerforward, capable of shutting down faster SFs too and even Centers and ofcourse the leaguest Best Rebounder as himself and yes, Kukoc a 6'11 SF that with Guard like passing abilities capable of putting 20 ppg if he would have played as a scoring focal point in any team in his early 20s and had no match up whatsoever in his SF Spot (too tall for SFs, too Fast for PFs)

**Allstar24** · 08-01-2008, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by TheProphet

He's such a winner in the Lakers last game in the post season. Remember the blowouts against the Suns and Celtics. Kobe told the Celts fans "It's not over" in game six only to eat his words with a 39 point defeat. You take winners. How about telling the fans "It's not over" and losing by 30+ points.

All I hear is blah blah blah...

3 championships= winner in my book. Could care less whether you agree or not.

**Sir Charles** · 08-01-2008, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Allstar24

All I hear is blah blah blah...

3 championships= winner in my book. Could care less whether you agree or not.

Ok Laker Ball Boy go get me a towel since you are a Part of my Great Team with Shaq as the Leader and MVP and Best Player, Great Supporting Casts All in their Prime and ussy Bryant himself. Don`t Worry You are a Champion too, You can also be Part of the 80s Showtime Lakers too

**C-Webb4** · 08-01-2008, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by Sir Charles

Kerr and Paxon happened to the both Top Spot Shooters in the 90s and Grant`s stats don`t say **** because he was on of the Best or the Best Defending Powerforward in the 90s (something stats can`t even show for ) not to mention Mr Grant after getting traded (total disrespect by the Bulls) the year after that was battling a championship with a young Magic Tea, and defeated Jordan-Pippens Bulls . Later on with the Lakers . Wherever this Gran`t went contending championships appeared. Lets not forget Mr Rodman another Top Defending Powerforward, capable of shutting down faster SFs too and even Centers and ofcourse the leaguest Best Rebounder and yes, Kukoc a 6'11 SF that with Guard like passing abilities capable of putting 20 ppg if he would have played a scoring focal point in any team in his early 20s and had no match up whatsoever in his SF Spot (to tall for SFs, too Fast for PFs)

Spot shooters are a dime a dozen, sorry. We're talking about Steve Kerr and John Paxon here, not Reggie Miller and Larry Legend.

and Grant was a very good defender, but he was not the best defender in the league, so stop overrating players just for the sake of argument.

Rodman was with the team for 3 years, and he was very much a role player. A great rebounder, but a role player nonetheless.

Kukoc was a solid player as well, but why aren't you addressing the players Charles Barkley had?

Moses Malone, Julius Erving, Maurice Cheeks... and some terrific spot up shooters which you seem to love so much, Dan Majerle... He played with Danny Ainge, Cedric Ceballos, Kevin Johnson, MIchael Finley, and many others. Charles Barkley is an all-time great, but his lack of a ring wasn't because of having a career filled with scrubs. If you think he never had a legit shot, you're lying to yourself.

**Sir Charles** · 08-01-2008, 05:18 PM

Spot shooters are a dime a dozen, sorry. We're talking about Steve Kerr and John Paxon here, not Reggie Miller and Larry Legend.

Spot Shooters are many but "Great "Spot Shooters are Fewer. How many average spot shooters can make clutch shots many times or final second buzzer beaters like Paxon?
and Grant was a very good defender, but he was not the best defender in the league, so stop overrating players just for the sake of argument.

Not Overrated but actually Underrated. Grant was a Major Part of the Bulls 3 Peat (in the tougher eraly 90s), not to Mention Reason why the Magic went to the finals with a young inexperienced team that beat the Bulls with Pippen and Jordan in 95. Then strrangley enough ended up with the Lakers to again = Win Championships!!!

Rodman was with the team for 3 years, and he was very much a role player. A great rebounder, but a role player nonetheless.

Rodman was arguabley the best On on One Defender Ever capable of guarding the Best SFs/PFs and even Cs all in one motion sometimes and the Best Technical Rebounder of All Time. You are calling a man that averaged close to 15 to 19 RPG in 7 Seasons just a Great rebounder? Not enough!

Kukoc was a solid player as well, but why do you never address the players Charles Barkley had?

Kukoc solid? Kukoc if he came to the NBA years before and played in a bad team was a 20 ppg, 6-7 rpg and 5 aspg man with ease. Was the Best Sixth Man of the 90s too. Go check out his games with the Bulls in the Mid 90s and see for yourself.

Moses Malone: After 1985-86 Got Traded. Would have been Charles`s Best Teamate and Mentor. That trade killed Chucks chances...

Julius Erving: 34 yearsold! in 1984 Way Passed His Prime (dependent on Physicall abilities to score too). In 1984 Barkley was a Rook that played 28 MPG and in 1987, the Doctor was 37 years old. Common!

Maurice Cheeks: Great Defender thats about it. Offensively a Roll Player.

... and some terrific spot up shooters which you seem to love so much,

Dan Majerle...: Great Shooter, Ok Defender...played with him 3 years only

He played with Danny Ainge: Passed his Prime, Ainge was 33 Years old in 1992-93.

Cedric Ceballos: Not a Fundamental or Intelligent Player but good offensively. How many Great Seasons? None!

Kevin Johnson: Only Great Player that Barkley played with in his PRIME and KJs Prime. Sadly a very arrogant and selfish players who did not asoume his real place in the Suns as the Second Leader. What happened to KJ after Charles left the Suns? ....we know the storry....

MIchael Finley: Who that? common!: oldlol:

and many others. Charles Barkley is an all-time great, but his lack of a ring wasn't because of having a career filled with scrubs. If you think he never had a legit shot, you're lying to yourself.

Just go watch the Level of Game between 1987 and 1995 and see for yourself out of all the Great Stars who had the Worst Casts = Barkley. Go watch the games thats all i can say...