1 year later: 100 Greatest Players of All-Time According to ISH

[dhenk]

im not a kobe fan
but personally i feel , kobe Bryant is 93489054894398048905895 X better than ****ing larry Bird
Larry Bird over kobe bryant
LOLLLLLLL

Does anyone else feel a little bit ashamed?

[Junny]

Ben ****ing wallace is on this list
be ****ing wallace
BEN WALLACE IS ON THIS ****ING LIST
this is a jokee
I expect to see Gilbert on it at the end of next year when he starts torching niggasss again

DPOY, championship, sure it may come as a surprise but are you really THAT surprised?

[TheAnswer]

Iverson too low

Yep agreed..He should be around 26 not higher than Kobe..but higher than GP and Drexler

[plowking]

Yep agreed..He should be around 26 not higher than Kobe..but higher than GP and Drexler

No way. GP is better then Allen Iverson. Iverson is a great player, but GP is amazing.

And does anyone else think Steve Nash is way too high on that list? Honestly, I think the guy doesn't deserve to be there, and I don't care about the MVP's. Hardaway is better then him and he is way down in 99th spot I think it was.

Nash simply is a product of his system.

What makes Nash better then Billups? Billups led his team to a championship and was the finals MVP. While Nash has shown for three straight years he cannot take the team with the best supporting cast in the league to a championship. They had 3 legit stars, a terrific scorer, a lockdown defender and a big bodied centre. Yet Nash couldn't get them over the line with one of the best supporting casts in recent times.

[Revelation]

My top 20.

1.Michael Jordan
2.Magic Johnson
3.Shaquille O'Neal
4.Kareem Abdul Jabbar
5.Wilt Chamberlain
6.Hakeem Olajuwon
7.Bill Russell
8.Larry Bird
9.Tim Duncan
10.Jerry West
...........

Bird at #8? Don't you think that is a little low? Most people put him at #4 or 5. If Magic Johnson is #2 then Bird can be no worse than #4 (In my opinion).

[cliffhagan]

Here's just a few thoughts I had while perusing the list. I might be thinking wrong though as I need to update my lists.

WAY Too High (15 spots +):
Wes Unseld
Bill Walton
Patrick Ewing
Dennis Rodman
Kevin Johnson
Anfernee Hardaway
Ben Wallace
Tom Chambers
Shawn Kemp
Joe Fulks

Too High (8-15 spots):
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
George Mikan
Willis Reed
Dave Cowens
Gary Payton (I'm a huge Glove fan too)
Kevin McHale
Steve Nash
Tracy McGrady
Robert Parish
Vince Carter
Tim Hardaway


Kinda Too High (4-8 spots):
Tim Duncan
Dirk Nowitzki (I'm a HUGE Dirk fan too)


WAY Too Low (15 spots +):
Bob Lanier (How is Wes Unseld AND Bill Walton 30 spots ahead of Bob Lanier???)
Pete Maravich
Kevin Garnett (even before he won his title he was higher)

Too Low (8-15 spots):
Kobe Bryant
Dave DeBusschere
Spencer Haywood

Kinda Too Low (4-8 spots):
Jason Kidd


Missing (Debatingly) / Fringe guys:
Cliff Hagan (Tom Chambers, Joe Fulks, Chris Mullin over Cliff Hagan????)
Bailey Howell
Clyde Lovellette (I can see how you'd leave him off though)
Jack Sikma (I'd pick him over Walton)
Ed Macauley (I'd pick him over Walton)
Vern Mikkelsen
Harry Gallatin
Maurice Lucas
Rudy LaRusso
Marques Johnson
Bob Dandridge
Tom Gola


I'm going to re-update my lists and see how they match up...

[Skywalker]

Pierce moves up the most out of all the guys on the list Id say.

[VCMVP1551]

Bird at #8? Don't you think that is a little low? Most people put him at #4 or 5. If Magic Johnson is #2 then Bird can be no worse than #4 (In my opinion).

I can't put Bird above guys like Shaq and Kareem because they won more, scored more and played better defense.

I can't put Bird above Wilt because of his scoring and defense, he's below Hakeem because of defense aswell.

Maybe as an overall player I'd put Bird ahead of Russell come to think of it actually.

[Revelation]

I can't put Bird above guys like Shaq and Kareem because they won more, scored more and played better defense.

I can't put Bird above Wilt because of his scoring and defense, he's below Hakeem because of defense aswell.

Maybe as an overall player I'd put Bird ahead of Russell come to think of it actually.

I understand your reasoning; however, you place Magic at # 2 all-time while he was never considered a good defender. In fact, I would say due to effort and determination that Bird was a better defensive player than was Magic.

Further, Hakeem Olajuwon and Russell were great defensive players but neither was offensively on Bird's level. Though I should say that Olajuwon was a terrific offensive talent.

As for Shaq, I can't really argue with you putting him so high even though most would put him at #6 or 7.

Here is my top 10, in case you were wondering.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Larry Bird
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Shaquille O'Neal
7. Bill Russell
8. Hakeem Olajuwon
9. Tim Duncan
10. Oscar Robertson

HM: Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Moses Malone, Julius Erving

[Psileas]

Too High (8-15 spots):
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Kareem was voted at #3 and I agree with him being ranked there, after Wilt and Jordan. I believe he could make a case for #1, but no way can he be argued to be 8-15 places after 3rd. That would put him at #11-18. Who else could be ahead of him and why? The absolute worst scenario for me would be to rank him below Wilt, Jordan, Russell, Magic, Bird, Shaq and close to Oscar, Hakeem, West, Duncan and Dr.J. But certainly not below all of them. I see no criterion whatsoever to argue such a low rank.

[VCMVP1551]

I understand your reasoning; however, you place Magic at # 2 all-time while he was never considered a good defender. In fact, I would say due to effort and determination that Bird was a better defensive player than was Magic.

Yeah but Magic won 2 more titles, repeated as champion and made 5 more Finals appearances.

Had Bird not started getting injured a lot while he was still in his prime I think he would have ended up even higher.

Further, Hakeem Olajuwon and Russell were great defensive players but neither was offensively on Bird's level. Though I should say that Olajuwon was a terrific offensive talent.

I disagree as far as Hakeem. He had probably the best post moves of any big man but he also had a shooting touch out to 15-17 feet aswell as being a great passer for a big man. There is a reason why successful teams choose to build around low post players so often.

Here is my top 10, in case you were wondering.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Larry Bird
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Shaquille O'Neal
7. Bill Russell
8. Hakeem Olajuwon
9. Tim Duncan
10. Oscar Robertson

HM: Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Moses Malone, Julius Erving

Good list, while mine is different I can't say you had any bad choices.

[Sicknote]

I think Pippen and Kobe should either switch spots or both move up one.

[Revelation]

Here's just a few thoughts I had while perusing the list. I might be thinking wrong though as I need to update my lists.

Too High (8-15 spots):
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
George Mikan
Willis Reed
Dave Cowens
Gary Payton (I'm a huge Glove fan too)
Kevin McHale
Steve Nash
Tracy McGrady
Robert Parish
Vince Carter
Tim Hardaway

Can you explain why? I am not a Kareem fan but his accomplishments and statistics seem to clearly place him in the #2 - #5 range on any list.

[cliffhagan]

Kareem was voted at #3 and I agree with him being ranked there, after Wilt and Jordan. I believe he could make a case for #1, but no way can he be argued to be 8-15 places after 3rd. That would put him at #11-18. Who else could be ahead of him and why? The absolute worst scenario for me would be to rank him below Wilt, Jordan, Russell, Magic, Bird, Shaq and close to Oscar, Hakeem, West, Duncan and Dr.J. But certainly not below all of them. I see no criterion whatsoever to argue such a low rank.

You know, this thread has made me rethink my all-time ranks, so I think they are definitely subject to change and I'm probably smoking something. :) That list above I made while glancing at my current all-time ranks, and probably needs tweaked. That being said, I'd probably still pick these guys over Kareem (not in order):


Wilt Chamberlain
Bill Russell
Shaquille O'Neal
Hakeem Olajuwon
David Robinson
Bob Pettit
Julius Erving
Larry Bird
Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant
Oscar Robertson
Magic Johnson

As far as criteria for choosing them....uh....let me get back to you. I'm gonna try and do an extended, thorough reranking of NBA players all-time. Yeah, I'm REALLY bored at work.

[cliffhagan]

Can you explain why? I am not a Kareem fan but his accomplishments and statistics seem to clearly place him in the #2 - #5 range on any list.

Now you guys are making me doubt myself. Ugh.


I just realized that Kobe can't work with teammates and probably needs moved down on my lists...

Crap.