C. Paul: "He can't guard me!"

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

Chris Paul also tied KJ in the most playoff games in a row with 30-10 at 2 in a row. MJ has 3, these are his first two games, that's unbelievable.

[sbw19]

[COLOR=Gray]Chris Paul also tied KJ in the most playoff games in a row with 30-10 at 2 in a row. MJ has 3, these are his first two games, that's unbelievable.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=Teal]Tell the guy. He's just full of it. [/COLOR]

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

[COLOR=Teal]Tell the guy. He's just full of it. [/COLOR]

Chris Paul is the best PG right now. KJ was back then, until CP3 hits his prime and slows down afterwards, then we can compare the numbers, but right now it's irrelevant to me.

I mean he played 13 years? And Paul is in his 3rd?

[KingJay718]

CP3 ether'ering J. Kidd is similar to when Tony Parker/Chauncey Billups ether'ed Gary Payton. The end result being, that they are done as top flight defenders (obviously).


I don't find it disrespectful at all, with what Cp3 did.

[sbw19]

[COLOR=Gray]Chris Paul is the best PG right now. KJ was back then, until CP3 hits his prime and slows down afterwards, then we can compare the numbers, but right now it's irrelevant to me.

I mean he played 13 years? And Paul is in his 3rd?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=Teal]True, you can't compare their careers yet because Paul's has just started. But the guy's acting like KJ was at a whole different level. That's where I believe he's wrong, and I told him why.[/COLOR]

[Glove_20]

[COLOR=Teal]
Well it's hard not to have an argument when Paul's shooting numbers (FG/3PT/FT) in his third season at the age of 22 are better than all of KJ's seasons except two. And you can't blame Paul for shooting the 3 well above his career 33% average this season while KJ is a 30% career 3pt shooter and for the vast majority of his career shot below 30%.

Paul in his third season averages 21.1ppg (Hornets averaged 100.9ppg) on 48.8FG%/36.93PT%/85.1FT%, 4rpg, 11.6apg (leads league), 2.7spg (leads league) & 2.5tpg.

KJ in his third season averaged 22.5 ppg (Phoenix averaged 110.1ppg) on 49.9FG%/19.53PT%(took 41 3pters)/83.8FT%, 3.6 rpg, 11.4 apg, 1.28 spg & 3.55tpg.

So you can see Paul's numbers this season which is his third are better than KJ's third season at more or less the same age (turns 23 next may) in a slower-paced era, and his performances in his first two playoff games rival not only KJ's best but also those of point guards regarded much higher than him.

And if you think he won't have a better career than KJ based on what he's capable of right now then all you have to do is watch him play ball in the playoffs for the next ten years.[/COLOR]

1. Once again you missed the point that the 3pt shot wasn't used back then. Many of KJ's 3 point attempts would then be half court, or full court shots. Which obviously bring down the 3pt % and therefore it's inaccurate to use that into context.

2. I don't see how Paul's numbers are better. KJ scored more, and scored more efficiently. Which was something you brought up earlier. KJ has a higher FG% (Most important). Here is another statistic that measures "efficient scoring"


Points Per Shot:

C.Paul: 1.31
K.Johnson: 1.43


KJ averaged more points, and was more efficient in terms of scoring. FG%, PPG, P/S, show that.



3.

Saying that KJ's performances in the playoffs haven't been as good as CP3's is hilarious. You obviously have never seen a Peak KJ.

Legends like Kevin Johnson stepped up in the playoffs and delivered big performances in the playoffs regularly.



4. I definately think Paul has a good potential to surpass KJ someday. I'm not a h@ter.

[Glove_20]

[COLOR=Teal]True, you can't compare their careers yet because Paul's has just started. But the guy's acting his KJ was at a whole different level. That's where I believe he's wrong, and I told him why.[/COLOR]

I've repeatedly said that it's a very close comparison right now, and that Paul has a good potential to surpass KJ.


Do you want me to post all the times I have said that in this thread.
Or will you post where I said it's not even close and KJ is on a different level.

[steve]

At the same time, who was able to run his offense better? Who was able to bring more success to his offense? I mean that's a PG's job too isn't it?

Considering that the Hornets have a much smaller margin for error than the Suns, Paul has to not only be there main scorer and get the rest of teammates involved, his assist to turnover ratio is significantly better than Johnson's (his best season while averaging over 10 assists was a 3.2 assist to turnover ratio, while it's a good a/t ratio, it's nowhere in the ballpark of 4.6), Paul's assist ratio is a good bit higher (Johnson's never going over 44%, while Paul's this season was at 52%) and considering that he's contributes more to the offense than Johnson did. You try to mention that his field goal percentage is greater than Paul's but their trusFG% isn't that far off (Johnson's was hovering a little above 58% while Paul's is a little under 58%). Johnson has more career achievements (which is to be assumed considering he's finished his career), in the context of the eras they played in, he never had as good a season.

[Glove_20]

We could go on, but I have to go.


But I'll bring GMAT along nextime, and then we will have a very intelligent debate about Kevin Johnson and how good he is. I just heard from him right now, and he said that in KJ's first playoff series, KJ put up 30.7ppg and 13.0 assists. And KJ was in his 2nd year just turned 23.


But someday, ISH will see, and open their eyes to how great KJ was.

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

We could go on, but I have to go.


But I'll bring GMAT along nextime, and then we will have a very intelligent debate about Kevin Johnson and how good he is. I just heard from him right now, and he said that in KJ's first playoff series, KJ put up 30.7ppg and 13.0 assists. And KJ was in his 2nd year just turned 23.


But someday, ISH will see, and open their eyes to how great KJ was.

Being a Sun's fan, I know how great he was, I just don't think it's time to debate it.

Also I think I have established myself in the few days that I have been here as a non-biased basketball fan. CP3 is a great player and seems to have a lot more in him. And KJ was an excellent player during his time, just let's enjoy the playoffs, worry about the past when Paul is in it.

[Glove_20]

Considering that the Hornets have a much smaller margin for error than the Suns, Paul has to not only be there main scorer and get the rest of teammates involved, his assist to turnover ratio is significantly better than Johnson's (his best season while averaging over 10 assists was a 3.2 assist to turnover ratio, while it's a good a/t ratio, it's nowhere in the ballpark of 4.6), Paul's assist ratio is a good bit higher (Johnson's never going over 44%, while Paul's this season was at 52%) and considering that he's contributes more to the offense than Johnson did. You try to mention that his field goal percentage is greater than Paul's but their trusFG% isn't that far off (Johnson's was hovering a little above 58% while Paul's is a little under 58%). Johnson has more career achievements (which is to be assumed considering he's finished his career), in the context of the eras they played in, he never had as good a season.

True that Paul has to do more, but at the same time you have to understand the reason KJ got more teammate help was because he brought out the best of their games and in turn they did more. Eddie Johnson, Hornacek, Chambers, all KJ's teammates, all had their best years with him. CP3 really hasn't brought out any more from anyone, however KJ brought more from each teammate. And that in turn led him to doing less overall. So it's unfair to penalize KJ for bringing and making his teammates do more and put up better numbers. Because that was also the result of KJ.

Paul's Passing/Playmaking efficiency is higher, KJ's scoring efficiency is higher, both got around same apg, KJ got a little higher ppg, it's a very close call. So let's leave it to playoff success?



In 1990 (The year we have been talking about)


Kevin Johnson first took his team past John Stockton and Malone's Jazz. And then he took them past Magic Johnson's Lakers (Lakers were still a good team in 1990), and went to the WCF.

Both Stockton and Magic had Home Court Advantage in the series by the way. Yet KJ was still able to lead his team all the way to the WCF past 2 of the greatest PGs in History in the same here.


Think about that...

[Glove_20]

Being a Sun's fan, I know how great he was, I just don't think it's time to debate it.

Also I think I have established myself in the few days that I have been here as a non-biased basketball fan. CP3 is a great player and seems to have a lot more in him. And KJ was an excellent player during his time, just let's enjoy the playoffs, worry about the past when Paul is in it.

Yeah I don't think it's time to debate it either. I just came in and saw comparisons, and I didn't want everyone thinking CP3 right now is better than KJ ever was, and hold that as a fact.

[LuCKy_JuNiOr]

Yeah I don't think it's time to debate it either. I just came in and saw comparisons, and I didn't want everyone thinking CP3 right now is better than KJ ever was, and hold that as a fact.

I'm not criticizing you at all, alright? Haha, I just voiced my opinion and honestly I agree with what you have shown and the comparisons, I just don't think it's time. And you agree with that as well. So all is good, it's just the biased kids that ruin forums.

[Glove_20]

Oh and just to add to a topic a little more relevant to the thread.

Kidd's defense has always been overrated and it's not surprise what is happening here. Not to say Kidd right now is anywhere near his prime on the defensive end, but Kidd has always been overrated on defense.

[juju151111]

Yeah I don't think it's time to debate it either. I just came in and saw comparisons, and I didn't want everyone thinking CP3 right now is better than KJ ever was, and hold that as a fact.

cp3 averge more stls and has a better asts to TO ratio.while kj has him in FG% and ppg by 1pt.so ur cliam about ever was is dumb