The new Athletic nba player poll on GOAT, most overrated, best defender, mvp, and ect

[eliteballer]

So desperate, delusional and deranged

[RRR3]

So desperate, delusional and deranged

Did you cry when Juicebe got exposed for going to Germany for illegal doping?

[Norcaliblunt]

I'd have a rule that you cannot vote for yourself to make it easier. However, if you are Magnus Carlsen, Mike Tyson or John McEnroe I'm fine with voting for yourself. But for most players they actually become worse players if they think way too much of themselves. Less individualism usually helps in environments you have to work with others.

Hey I’d be one to agree if the narrative hasn’t always been “you have to believe you’re the best”.

Every self proclaimed GOAT, or player A saying they are better than player B is debatable. But they are allowed to say it because we understand confidence is a necessity when striving to be great.

So when I see these polls and players doing the opposite I find that interesting.

[FultzNationRISE]

Reporter: How would you assess the season so far?

Michael Ray Richardson: The ship be sinkin


Reporter: How far can it sink, Michael Ray?

MRR: Sky's the limit

[3ba11]

If Wilt Chamberlain had his own "Klutch Sports" back in the 60's that stood on the highest mountain and proclaimed he was GOAT. while simultaneously sh*tting on Bill Russell with stuff like "we done with the 50's", or "you had 8 HOF teammates and were carried", or "you were just a defender that shot 38% lol we done with 38%"

I guarantee that everyone would lap it up and think Wilt was better than Russell - we can be certain the propaganda would work because the polls show the gap between MJ/Lebron narrowing despite Lebron providing zero of examples of playing on MJ's level since the last poll - Lebron was lottery in 2019 and then 2nd option in 2020, and then disaster ever since such as missed play-ins, 1st Round losses and sweep loss... With zero examples of MJ-level performance since the last poll, we can conclude that the propaganda is worked to narrow the gap... and don't bother with the longevity career totals garbage - everyone that passed arithmetic knows that it's a reflection of playing longer, not better.

So people can claim "consensus top 2" but Lebron isn't... The top 2 label is for winners

You give them good players and they mostly WIN for stretches and have towering dynasties; they don't mostly lose and have weak records

If a player isn't capable of mostly winning with a cast and mostly loses with every cast, then they aren't an elite-level winner and cannot be in the top 2.. This insufficient winning factor is exacerbated if the player also has more bad losses than anyone in history and the worst championship record in history.

And when we look at why Lebron isn't the "winner" that the guys ranked above him were, we quickly find the reasons - it's skill-based - he cannot shoot or play off teammates compared to other all-timers, and the resulting inferior chemistry yields weaker team ceilings, such as perennial underdog status or lottery records on the championship level - that's what Lebron produces when he has help..

This is nowhere near "top 2" all-time.. Absurd... Tonight when you're watching bron-ball get it's yearly spanking, the answer to your inevitable question of "why can't the lakers stop the onslaught?" is that they have to put the Nuggets on their heels defensively, which takes away their offensive capacity.. Unfortunately, we already know that bron's ball-dominance lets a defense rest, so they have more capacity for offense (spurs, warriors, nuggets, magic, mavs), while zippy ball movement wears down a defense, so they have less capacity for offense (bron's teams).

[SouBeachTalents]

If Wilt Chamberlain had his own "Klutch Sports" back in the 60's that stood on the highest mountain and proclaimed he was GOAT. while simultaneously sh*tting on Bill Russell with stuff like "we done with the 50's", or "you had 8 HOF teammates and were carried", or "you were just a defender that shot 38% lol we done with 38%"

I guarantee that everyone would lap it up and think Wilt was better than Russell - we can be certain the propaganda would work because the polls show the gap between MJ/Lebron narrowing despite Lebron providing zero of examples of playing on MJ's level since the last poll - Lebron was lottery in 2019 and then 2nd option in 2020, and then disaster ever since such as missed play-ins, 1st Round losses and sweep loss... With zero examples of MJ-level performance since the last poll, we can conclude that the propaganda is worked to narrow the gap... and don't bother with the longevity career totals garbage - everyone that passed arithmetic knows that it's a reflection of playing longer, not better.

So you can claim "consensus top 2" but Lebron isn't... The top 2 label is for winners

You give them good players and they mostly WIN for stretches and have towering dynasties; they don't mostly lose and have weak records

If a player isn't capable of mostly winning with a cast and mostly loses with every cast, then they aren't an elite-level winner and cannot be in the top 2.. This insufficient winning factor is exacerbated if the player also has more bad losses than anyone in history and the worst championship record in history.

And when we look at why Lebron isn't the "winner" that the guys ranked above him were, we quickly find the reasons - it's skill-based - he cannot shoot or play off teammates compared to other all-timers, and the resulting inferior chemistry yields weaker team ceilings, such as perennial underdog status or lottery records on the championship level - that's what Lebron produces when he has help..

This is nowhere near "top 2" all-time.. Absurd... Tonight when you're watching bron-ball get it's yearly spanking, the answer to your inevitable question of "why can't the lakers stop the onslaught?" is that they have to put the Nuggets on their heels defensively, which takes away their offensive capacity.. Unfortunately, we already know that bron's ball-dominance lets a defense rest, so they have more capacity for offense (spurs, warriors, nuggets, magic, mavs), while zippy ball movement wears down a defense, so they have less capacity for offense (bron's teams).

1-9

[RRR3]

Snivelball is absolutely losing it over how close LeBron is getting to GOAT in the eye of the public.

[FKAri]

The majority of the players pick Bron over Giannis and Embiid when starting a team, TODAY? Bron stans are thriving at the highest levels of basketball.

[Axe]

Juicers can’t be the GOAT.

If wemby the giraffe ever becomes one someday, you'd start calling him that too.

[SATAN]

Mikey mythologists clinging for dear life

[sdot_thadon]

The melt is real.

[ImKobe]

I stopped reading after Kobe got 10% of the GOAT vote. That tells you everything you need to know about the credibility of this poll.

What did you think? Of course a good deal of people around the world have Kobe as their personal GOAT. He had so much impact on this current generation. Stat nerds will try to disqualify him always because he wasn't the most efficient player, but winning 5 and having the run he did from '00-'13 makes him one of the GOATs by default. Worst part about it is that he wasn't even inefficient, but he'll always be hated by the MJ, Duncan, Shaq and Lebron stans because for a period of time ('06-'10) he was more loved and more popular than all of them.

KB pissed off so many fanbases so there's always going to be a divide when it comes to online discourse. Most disrespected top 10 GOAT out of all of them.

[iamgine]

Kobe having 9.8% of the votes for GOAT is crazy. Fans often measure greatness by how aesthetic a player’s game was and how iconic they were. Kobe checks off both of those boxes but he doesn’t have any case for being in the GOAT convo

It's not crazy at all. Greatness criteria vary widely and it's very subjective.

For example, if you were asked who's the greatest person ever to you. It wouldn't be strange to pick your own dad over the likes of Isaac Newton or George Washington.

[ImKobe]

Mikey mythologists clinging for dear life

Dear life? Jordan's been ranked over Lebron for the 21 years that Lebron's been in the league. Jordan was called the GOAT about 9 years into his NBA career when he was going for his 3rd ring. What has Lebron done since his 2016 championship that would tilt the scales in his favor? No one cares about the longevity records or the bubble championship in a GOAT debate. Jordan had the better peak and Jordan was the better Playoff performer and Jordan won more. If your Lebron argument is "Well, he didn't win as many MVPs or championships or even have a winning record in the Finals, but he played 20+ years at a high level!" then even you don't really believe the shit that you're typing.

[j3lademaster]

So basically, objective numbers and metrics as well as testimonials of his contemporaries point to Jokic being a good defender. Is it just casuals at this point who think he’s average at best?