Can an elite defensive PG impact a defense as much as an elite center?

[ImKobe]

A big like AD can guard 1-5 and impact the D in a lot more ways than the smaller guard ever would. The perimeter is also a lot wider of an area than the paint.

[tpols]

A big like AD can guard 1-5 and impact the D in a lot more ways than the smaller guard ever would. The perimeter is also a lot wider of an area than the paint.

AD is an awesome defender but you're discounting communication and leadership. AD is an amazing athlete and can dominate on that alone. He isn't a a great vocal leader though.

Kidd was quarterbacking the defense and rebounding schemes his team had @ an elite level. #1 ranked defense multiple years in a row. After being bottom ranked when he got there.

The Lakers OTOH are the 16th ranked defense right now. Big trash. AD is only a solitary great defender. Like a tiger. Jason Kidd was like a male lion in that he ruled a pride. That's the big difference.

[ImKobe]

AD is an awesome defender but you're discounting communication and leadership. AD is an amazing athlete and can dominate on that alone. He isn't a a great vocal leader though.

Kidd was quarterbacking the defense and rebounding schemes his team had @ an elite level. #1 ranked defense multiple years in a row.

The Lakers OTOH are the 16th ranked defense right now. Big trash. AD is only a solitary great defender. Like a tiger. Jason Kidd was like a male lion in that he ruled a pride. That's the big difference.

You know that the league is so much different now, right? You can't be that physical on D, and teams spread you out a lot more and just pick on the weakest link over & over again, even if you try to help out, they move the ball and find the open man. AD led the Lakers to a top 3 defense in B2B years in 2020 (3rd) & 2021 (1st).

At least AD can take away the paint, but no great defensive PG can individually take away those 3s. Defense is more of a team effort than it's ever been, and if you got multiple weak links (Reaves, Dlo, Bran to an extent because he's slow to contest 3s to save energy) you're going to be easier to exploit. We've seen AD completely change Playoff games just off his individual defensive ability alone just last year.

[Im Still Ballin]

This 6'1" point guard is the best defender in NCAA D1 college ball according to DBPM. +6.9 points per 100 possessions on defense. Ranked higher than rim protectors and versatile forwards.



Caruso is ranked as high as Rudy and Wemby in one-number metrics like D-EPM, D-DRIP, and D-LEBRON. There are absolutely exceptions to the rule and historically Kidd was one of the biggest.

[tpols]

You know that the league is so much different now, right? You can't be that physical on D, and teams spread you out a lot more and just pick on the weakest link over & over again, even if you try to help out, they move the ball and find the open man. AD led the Lakers to a top 3 defense in B2B years in 2020 (3rd) & 2021 (1st).

At least AD can take away the paint, but no great defensive PG can individually take away those 3s. [B】Defense is more of a team effort[/B] than it's ever been, and if you got multiple weak links (Reaves, Dlo, Bran to an extent because he's slow to contest 3s to save energy) you're going to be easier to exploit. We've seen AD completely change Playoff games just off his individual defensive ability alone just last year.

Yes.

And that's what we've trying to tell you guys about leadership and communication and motivation being so important. Kidd had his crew putting in overtime effort. He was a tremendous floor general and leader. AD? And you know I rep Davis... he's simply not a great leader or communicator. Plus he's kind of soft. Kidd on the flipside was an iron man and tremendous at putting everybody on the same page.

Again the Lakers are the 16th ranked defense. They were largely top ranked in the years you mentioned because of Frank Vogel who is a thibs level defensive coach. Nets were #1. And Jason Collins wasn't the difference.

[Trollsmasher]

No

No guard has ever been even a top 15 defender in the league impact wise

[Im Still Ballin]

[ImKobe]

Yes.

And that's what we've trying to tell you guys about leadership and communication and motivation being so important. Kidd had his crew putting in overtime effort. He was a tremendous floor general and leader. AD? And you know I rep Davis... he's simply not a great leader or communicator. Plus he's kind of soft. Kidd on the flipside was an iron man and tremendous at putting everybody on the same page.

Again the Lakers are the 16th ranked defense. They were largely top ranked in the years you mentioned because of Frank Vogel who is a thibs level defensive coach. Nets were #1. And Jason Collins wasn't the difference.

No, they were ranked top 3 in those years because of coaching and talent both. Who are the back-up bigs now? Who are the guards? How many good defensive players do the Lakers have besides AD and Vando (who's been injured all year)?

Kidd is the coach of the Mavs. Why did their defense fall off so hard from 6th in 2022 when he's their leader? Did he stop doing his job? No, the talent on the defensive side got worse. Why are the Warriors terrible on defense, when they have the same coach, and the same QB (Dray) live-coaching & anchoring their defense?

[Axe]

Doubtful. But if an undersized pg can block guys over 7-feet tall on a regular basis based on athletic ability and skill, then a good case can be made on this.

[Duffy Pratt]

A big like AD can guard 1-5 and impact the D in a lot more ways than the smaller guard ever would. The perimeter is also a lot wider of an area than the paint.

He has a lot of trouble with big, strong 5s who are effective in the post, and with quick perimeter players. He is fantastic in his role on defense, but Bam has been better against Joker or Embiid, and is also better on the quicker guards. Remember, the Lakers had to pull AD off of Joker.

[ImKobe]

He has a lot of trouble with big, strong 5s who are effective in the post, and with quick perimeter players. He is fantastic in his role on defense, but Bam has been better against Joker or Embiid, and is also better on the quicker guards. Remember, the Lakers had to pull AD off of Joker.

They had to do that because Jokic would pull AD out of paint, leaving the offensive glass open for Denver and also giving Aaron Gordon and others a chance to get to the basket more, because the Lakers had weak links on defense (Dlo being the main problem where he hurt them on D and did nothing on O). Once they pulled AD off Jokic and had him sag off AG on the weak side, the Lakers did a lot better defensively in spurts, but then Jamal Murray absolutely grilled them on the perimeter when it mattered.

No one's stopping Jokic 1 on 1. Look at what he did to Bam & the Heat in the Finals. He went from 27.8 ppg on ~60%TS in the WCF to 30.2 ppg on 67%TS in the Finals.

[dankok8]

The consistent signal is that when he joined teams in his prime, they got better - and largely because of defense. And when he left the opposite happened. And these teams weren't trading him for scraps, either. They gave up win-now pieces. As I said before, there's impact that the numbers can't quantify. And for no player is this more true than Jason Kidd.

Offense vs defense splits are unreliable. They did get better but some of that can still be offense. When lineups change, sometimes they get more defensively slanted. So Kidd doesn't make a defense with Kenyon Martin much better but makes Kenyon better on offense so he can play more minutes. But the team is still defensively minded.

Basically when assessing impact, we should look at Net Rating change and then try to figure out the offense-defense split but it can be tricky.