What do you think about Reed Sheppard?

[BarberSchool]

That's the thing though. Shepperd wasn't a big option for Kentucky until the last couple of weeks where he's shown a complete takeover ability in multiple facets.

I agree that his size might be an issue, but if he's utilized in a Reddick type of role, he will at least have the ability to be the primary ball-handler and playmaker when the starting PG is out. I could see teams staggering him in that way.

Another aspect, since Grayson was the 21st pick, is that he went to an established team where his role was going to be limited. Shepperd may be tasked with helping a team from the ground-up and I think he has the mental make-up, and skills, to etch out a different role.

I've seen the better-shooting Hinrich comps but I think Bibby ones are more accurate.

Hinrich was far more “black athleticism” than Shepard could ever be. Hinrich also had longer arms and longer strides, and more usable strength at limb range.

[tontoz]

Yea I think if he was more selfish and just wanted to score/assist he could do so pretty much at will.

His ability to shoot off the dribble is high level. He can pull up at any time and doesn't need to load up before jumping like a lot of guys do. I've seen him do pretty much any kind of jumper moving any direction and he makes it look easy.

That 2nd half against Miss St was sick (first vid in OP).

[tontoz]

Hinrich was far more “black athleticism” than Shepard could ever be. Hinrich also had longer arms and longer strides, and more usable strength at limb range.

Sheppard has 23 blocks this season. Hinrich spent 4 years in college and the most he got was 17.

[ShawkFactory]

Hinrich was far more “black athleticism” than Shepard could ever be. Hinrich also had longer arms and longer strides, and more usable strength at limb range.

Well yea he was taller and longer..so that makes sense.

Sheppard makes up for it with incredible instincts and footwork. The improvisation on both ends from such a young guy are impressive.

He doesn’t really have the bounce but his first step is legit and he times everything well.

[BarberSchool]

Sheppard has 23 blocks this season. Hinrich spent 4 years in college and the most he got was 17.

So … are you tryna say … Shepard has more athleticism (or ever could) than Hinrich ? Lmmfao

[tontoz]

So … are you tryna say … Shepard has more athleticism (or ever could) than Hinrich ? Lmmfao

Yes. Kirk was scrappy no doubt but I am pretty sure Sheppard will blow away his combine numbers.

Reed's father had some hops and it shows when Reed contests shots. If you watch him run the break off the ball that's when you can see his speed. He is pretty controlled with the ball so people underrated his athleticism.

Reed dunks routinely in games for a short guy.

[BarberSchool]

Well yea he was taller and longer..so that makes sense.

Sheppard makes up for it with incredible instincts and footwork. The improvisation on both ends from such a young guy are impressive.

He doesn’t really have the bounce but his first step is legit and he times everything well.

Luka has proved a slow guy who times everything well, coordinating his crossover/tween balance act, to both get his own defender off balance, while also timing his drives to when the big is about to out his foot outside the paint … can be every bit as effective and efficient generating paint points, as a dynamite first step.

So it can be done … but from a much larger, heavier player, who deals with body blows better than any PNR player since LeBron.

Reality is shepard’x 6’3” wingspan and lack of height/weight to body his own defender, or any help defender, will likely not be sufficient to be a scoring threat on penetration, that his elite shooting generates (especially attacking weakside close outs like Allen)

Most elite paint scoring guards are either much more athletic (Ja) or larger (Luka, Shai), Shepard would have an awful lot of work to do to imitate curry and Irving paint scoring… if a team even makes him a primary PNP/PNR handler.

[ShawkFactory]

Luka has proved a slow guy who times everything well, coordinating his crossover/tween balance act, to both get his own defender off balance, while also timing his drives to when the big is about to out his foot outside the paint … can be every bit as effective and efficient generating paint points, as a dynamite first step.

So it can be done … but from a much larger, heavier player, who deals with body blows better than any PNR player since LeBron.

Reality is shepard’x 6’3” wingspan and lack of height/weight to body his own defender, or any help defender, will likely not be sufficient to be a scoring threat on penetration, that his elite shooting generates (especially attacking weakside close outs like Allen)

Most elite paint scoring guards are either much more athletic (Ja) or larger (Luka, Shai), Shepard would have an awful lot of work to do to imitate curry and Irving paint scoring… if a team even makes him a primary PNP/PNR handler.

You’re making several leaps here. One is assuming that Sheppard is slow, which he is not.

The other is insinuating that anyone claimed he would be an elite, or even close to elite, paint scoring threat. I was talking about his first step as a means to break down a defense or create shots for himself or others in general.

[warriorfan]

He looks like a great player in a lot of aspects, I personally think his 6’3” wingspan is going to be the bottleneck in his progression to a top level NBA player though. It is possible for him to overcome but the odds aren’t in his favor.

[tontoz]

At the combine Kirk's max vert was 33.5".


https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/comb...rt=PLAYER_NAME

I'd bet my car that Sheppard tops that. I would guess his will be at least 37".

[BarberSchool]

He looks like a great player in a lot of aspects, I personally think his 6’3” wingspan is going to be the bottleneck in his progression to a top level NBA player though. It is possible for him to overcome but the odds aren’t in his favor.

Curry and Irving both have short wingspans…

1. Will any team let Shepard be PNP/PNR ball handler?

2. Can his handles develope anywhere close to Curry/Irving ? That’s a mighty tall task.

[warriorfan]

Curry and Irving both have short wingspans…

1. Will any team let Shepard be PNP/PNR ball handler?

2. Can his handles develope anywhere close to Curry/Irving ? That’s a mighty tall task.

They both do. But they have great athleticism in pretty much every other area to make up for it. Plus those guys are probably 1a and 1b for best handles in the game or all time for that matter

I’m not saying it’s impossible, he can still do it, his wingspan is just going to be a big hurdle for him to overcome.

[FultzNationRISE]

He looks like a great player in a lot of aspects, I personally think his 6’3” wingspan is going to be the bottleneck in his progression to a top level NBA player though. It is possible for him to overcome but the odds aren’t in his favor.

Wingspan I think is really a bigger deal on defense than offense. Particularly for perimeter players, and now more than ever, wingspan doesnt really make much difference offensively IMO. When you've got a lot of space to operate, you rarely need to go over the top of someone standing chest to chest with you.

And as individual defense becomes less pertinent, the value of these physical traits starts to shift.

It sounds odd but in a lot of ways shifting the emphasis from defense to offense is a lot like the evolution of humanity. Once you begin mastering tools, you need less physical prowess and more cerebral acuity. Offense in basketball is tool oriented. You manipulate the ball, you use the movement of your teammates, you make decisions based on the usage of these tools. Do you wanna pump fake, do you wanna pass fake, do you wanna dribble to the hoop or pull up for a shot? Do you wanna pass to the cutter, or to the corner man? The better you make decisions and the faster you can do it makes you a more dangerous offensive player.

On defense the only tool is yourself, there are very few decisions to make. You cant really fake anyone out with a move, you cant surprise anyone (unless youre Grand Theft Alvarado), you dont manipulate the ball, and you cant really use your teammates to the same extent you can on offense with picks and passes. There is definitely some value to having good defensive timing and 'instincts,' altho that opens up a different discussion as to whether instincts and decision making are even the same thing.

In general tho, to use the aforementioned examples, what makes guys like Curry and Irving more successful than John Wall for instance, primarily starts with intellect, even if that's not the obvious factor because you cant directly see or measure it. And as basketball becomes more of a race toward flawless offense, wherein the quality of a defense simply doesnt matter because good offense beats good defense, therefore flawless offense will always win no matter the defense, intelligence has become an increasingly important factor in basketball success. It's more important on offense than defense, and the game is moving toward offense. Granted there are still physical thresholds a guy is gonna have to meet to be successful at the NBA level, but you dont have to be Russell Westbrook to be a high impact player.

This is how it was in the 80s and before, where guys had to go thru college and at least be basically personally and professionally competent for coaches and teams to take them seriously as players, and you can just see and hear in the interviews with guys like Kareem or Dr J or whoever that players back then were more intelligent. By the 90s, teams were all trying to pick any dude off the playground they thought might sell a billion dollars worth of gatorade and sneakers with his attitude and flashy dunks, and the league IQ dropped and the quality of offense suffered. The players of the low scoring era were notoriously stupid and this is not a coincidence IMO.

Now youre seeing a revival of offense, and a coinciding league wide revival of intelligence. And less of a place for Stromile Swift, Tyrus Thomas, Kenyon Martin, Darius Miles types, despite their physical imposition.

[Im Still Ballin]

Wingspan I think is really a bigger deal on defense than offense. Particularly for perimeter players, and now more than ever, wingspan doesnt really make much difference offensively IMO. When you've got a lot of space to operate, you rarely need to go over the top of someone standing chest to chest with you.

And as individual defense becomes less pertinent, the value of these physical traits starts to shift.

It sounds odd but in a lot of ways shifting the emphasis from defense to offense is a lot like the evolution of humanity. Once you begin mastering tools, you need less physical prowess and more cerebral acuity. Offense in basketball is tool oriented. You manipulate the ball, you use the movement of your teammates, you make decisions based on the usage of these tools. Do you wanna pump fake, do you wanna pass fake, do you wanna dribble to the hoop or pull up for a shot? Do you wanna pass to the cutter, or to the corner man? The better you make decisions and the faster you can do it makes you a more dangerous offensive player.

On defense the only tool is yourself, there are very few decisions to make. You cant really fake anyone out with a move, you cant surprise anyone (unless youre Grand Theft Alvarado), you dont manipulate the ball, and you cant really use your teammates to the same extent you can on offense with picks and passes. There is definitely some value to having good defensive timing and 'instincts,' altho that opens up a different discussion as to whether instincts and decision making are even the same thing.

In general tho, to use the aforementioned examples, what makes guys like Curry and Irving more successful than John Wall for instance, primarily starts with intellect, even if that's not the obvious factor because you cant directly see or measure it. And as basketball becomes more of a race toward flawless offense, wherein the quality of a defense simply doesnt matter because good offense beats good defense, therefore flawless offense will always win no matter the defense, intelligence has become an increasingly important factor in basketball success. It's more important on offense than defense, and the game is moving toward offense. Granted there are still physical thresholds a guy is gonna have to meet to be successful at the NBA level, but you dont have to be Russell Westbrook to be a high impact player.

This is how it was in the 80s and before, where guys had to go thru college and at least be basically personally and professionally competent for coaches and teams to take them seriously as players, and you can just see and hear in the interviews with guys like Kareem or Dr J or whoever that players back then were more intelligent. By the 90s, teams were all trying to pick any dude off the playground they thought might sell a billion dollars worth of gatorade and sneakers with his attitude and flashy dunks, and the league IQ dropped and the qualify of offense suffered. The players of the low scoring era were notoriously stupid. I really dont think these things are coincidence.

Now youre seeing a revival of offense, and a coinciding league wide revival of intelligence. And less of a place for Stromile Swift, Tyrus Thomas, Kenyon Martin, Darius Miles types, despite their physical imposition.

Good post.

Basketball is an inherently offensive game; it's not like soccer where the game routinely ends 0-0. Or 1-0. Even in the late '90s and early '00s - the most defensive era - the average NBA team still scored comfortably over 90 points a night.

Defense is reactionary and largely at the mercy of the offense. As you stated, there's only so much defenses can do to control what happens on a possession.

[warriorfan]

Wingspan I think is really a bigger deal on defense than offense. Particularly for perimeter players, and now more than ever, wingspan doesnt really make much difference offensively IMO. When you've got a lot of space to operate, you rarely need to go over the top of someone standing chest to chest with you.

And as individual defense becomes less pertinent, the value of these physical traits starts to shift.

It sounds odd but in a lot of ways shifting the emphasis from defense to offense is a lot like the evolution of humanity. Once you begin mastering tools, you need less physical prowess and more cerebral acuity. Offense in basketball is tool oriented. You manipulate the ball, you use the movement of your teammates, you make decisions based on the usage of these tools. Do you wanna pump fake, do you wanna pass fake, do you wanna dribble to the hoop or pull up for a shot? Do you wanna pass to the cutter, or to the corner man? The better you make decisions and the faster you can do it makes you a more dangerous offensive player.

On defense the only tool is yourself, there are very few decisions to make. You cant really fake anyone out with a move, you cant surprise anyone (unless youre Grand Theft Alvarado), you dont manipulate the ball, and you cant really use your teammates to the same extent you can on offense with picks and passes. There is definitely some value to having good defensive timing and 'instincts,' altho that opens up a different discussion as to whether instincts and decision making are even the same thing.

In general tho, to use the aforementioned examples, what makes guys like Curry and Irving more successful than John Wall for instance, primarily starts with intellect, even if that's not the obvious factor because you cant directly see or measure it. And as basketball becomes more of a race toward flawless offense, wherein the quality of a defense simply doesnt matter because good offense beats good defense, therefore flawless offense will always win no matter the defense, intelligence has become an increasingly important factor in basketball success. It's more important on offense than defense, and the game is moving toward offense. Granted there are still physical thresholds a guy is gonna have to meet to be successful at the NBA level, but you dont have to be Russell Westbrook to be a high impact player.

This is how it was in the 80s and before, where guys had to go thru college and at least be basically personally and professionally competent for coaches and teams to take them seriously as players, and you can just see and hear in the interviews with guys like Kareem or Dr J or whoever that players back then were more intelligent. By the 90s, teams were all trying to pick any dude off the playground they thought might sell a billion dollars worth of gatorade and sneakers with his attitude and flashy dunks, and the league IQ dropped and the quality of offense suffered. The players of the low scoring era were notoriously stupid and this is not a coincidence IMO.

Now youre seeing a revival of offense, and a coinciding league wide revival of intelligence. And less of a place for Stromile Swift, Tyrus Thomas, Kenyon Martin, Darius Miles types, despite their physical imposition.

I agree with most of this post. Yes wingspan is primarily for defense, but that is the area will he will be exposed the most.

Yes you can make up for lack of athleticism on defense by high ball iq and being in the right position every time. Steph is a good example of this. An old Andrew Bogut is a good example too, he was still able to be an elite defender after he lost almost all his athleticism due too anticipation and timing.

Yes, generally speaking offense is more valuable than defense, especially in today’s league where it’s almost not allowed anymore.

However that doesn’t mean you can’t play zero D. He could get away with being slightly below average. If he’s a cone, it probably won’t work well.

Is he going to be a JJ Reddick, Jimmer, or even Trey Young type guy

Or is he going to be a kyrie, curry type of guy


Like I said before if we are being realistic he has a better shot at ending up in the first group rather than the latter.

Not saying it’s impossible for him, but as of now it’s going to be a bit of an uphill battle for him to become a star in the NBA.