Gen Z is really pushing the “The 90s were awful” angle lately.

[tpols]

No I didn't get caught because I wouldn't take Bird's numbers outside of his prime to mean squat. 1984-1988 is prime Bird.

That's total bullshit. Bird was winning titles as the best player way before 1984. And his prime was longer than 4 years.

[FKAri]

Bird shot 32% from 3 in his playoff career. On a sample size that is signifigant. Dirk not only shot way better, but he made almost double the volume of 3s.

This is where people are starting to draw the line with old heads. The facts don't support your nostalgia. Dirk was better than Bird. And he mightve been better than Kobe. But he was a low key guy in the media.

What kind of shots are these? How many of these are heaves? How many are broken plays with the ball in his hands and the shot clock running down? How many are catch and shoot open 3s? It's why these numbers from that era don't translate well.

[dankok8]

That's total bullshit. Bird was winning titles as the best player way before 1984. And his prime was longer than 4 years.

Bird was a really good player in 1981 but he wasn't in his prime. In other words, 1984-1988 Bird was much better.

[kentatm]

Bird shot 32% from 3 in his playoff career. On a sample size that is signifigant. Dirk not only shot way better, but he made almost double the volume of 3s.

This is where people are starting to draw the line with old heads. The facts don't support your nostalgia. Dirk was better than Bird. And he mightve been better than Kobe. But he was a low key guy in the media.

I mean... I've argued Dirk was a better offensive player than Kobe here since we were still running on EZ Board but that's for a totally different thread.

But simply looking at Bird's 3pt% in the playoffs to say well he wasn't actually good at them is shallow analysis. The game was not played for 3s back then. Quite a few of them tended to be late shot clock shots or were heaved in desperation b/c the team was so far down. They were not running very many plays to specifically free up shooters the way teams do now.

To me it's like comparing a players batting average and strike out numbers from the 80s to this era. If you just look at the BAs and spike in strikeouts you could say a lot of guys can't hit for shit anymore. But that completely ignores that guys no longer hit for average and would rather go for power b/c analytics say you'll score much more. Kind of the same w/bball. Dudes don't have great 3 point percentages back then mainly b/c the offenses weren't geared towards creating good 3 point looks.

[Baller234]

You can't hold Bird to the same shooting standards as more modern players. It wouldn't be fair. Bird's generation weren't shooting 3's and practicing 3's from the moment they picked up a basketball. The fact that Bird shot 3's as well as he did despite never having to up until that point speaks volumes.

It's not nostalgia clouding people's judgement. That would imply people are just remembering things incorrectly. I was too young, but I imagine witnessing Bird in real time was a lot like witnessing Steph in real time. Nobody had ever shot like that before.

Also, no disrespect to Dirk, but if you think he was better than Bird then you need your eyes checked. Bird is basically Nowitzki but faster and can also run point.

[tpols]

What kind of shots are these? How many of these are heaves? How many are broken plays with the ball in his hands and the shot clock running down? How many are catch and shoot open 3s? It's why these numbers from that era don't translate well.

Do you really think across a sample size between the two of 100s of shots Bird took that many more heaves than Dirk for it to make a difference?

Watching the tape it's even worse because in the 80s everybody was camping the paint and barely guarding the 3pt line. And in Dirks era the 3pt shot post Suns revolution was actually being flown at against. So how Dirk shot better on way higher volume looks even crazier when you look at it under a microscope.

[tpols]

I mean... I've argued Dirk was a better offensive player than Kobe here since we were still running on EZ Board but that's for a totally different thread.

But simply looking at Bird's 3pt% in the playoffs to say well he wasn't actually good at them is shallow analysis. The game was not played for 3s back then. Quite a few of them tended to be late shot clock shots or were heaved in desperation b/c the team was so far down. They were not running very many plays to specifically free up shooters the way teams do now.

To me it's like comparing a players batting average and strike out numbers from the 80s to this era. If you just look at the BAs and spike in strikeouts you could say a lot of guys can't hit for shit anymore. But that completely ignores that guys no longer hit for average and would rather go for power b/c analytics say you'll score much more. Kind of the same w/bball. Dudes don't have great 3 point percentages back then mainly b/c the offenses weren't geared towards creating good 3 point looks.

Baseball is a sport where I feel like it was better back in the day. Talking about power, all the homerun Champs are from decades ago. Barry bonds, Hank Aaron, and Babe Ruth. With the latter being born in 1895. People used to love baseball in the USA. Now every home town field is empty.

[ShawkFactory]

I mean... I've argued Dirk was a better offensive player than Kobe here since we were still running on EZ Board but that's for a totally different thread.

But simply looking at Bird's 3pt% in the playoffs to say well he wasn't actually good at them is shallow analysis. The game was not played for 3s back then. Quite a few of them tended to be late shot clock shots or were heaved in desperation b/c the team was so far down. They were not running very many plays to specifically free up shooters the way teams do now.

To me it's like comparing a players batting average and strike out numbers from the 80s to this era. If you just look at the BAs and spike in strikeouts you could say a lot of guys can't hit for shit anymore. But that completely ignores that guys no longer hit for average and would rather go for power b/c analytics say you'll score much more. Kind of the same w/bball. Dudes don't have great 3 point percentages back then mainly b/c the offenses weren't geared towards creating good 3 point looks.

That's an excellent analogy

People were asked to do different things. It's the same with pitchers. They're not asked to throw complete games anymore because bullpens are so good. There's more effort in each pitch and strikeouts are higher with the emphasis on power from hitters so they're asked to capitalize on that.

[dankok8]

If you want to argue that Dirk is a better scorer than Bird, I might agree with you but better player? Not a chance. Bird's playmaking alone makes the comparison not very close at all.

[RRR3]

From 2017-21 LeBron shot 37.4% on 5.8 attempts per game from 3 in the playoffs. An elite shooter by dankok's logic! Let's see if he's consistent here

[dankok8]

From 2017-21 LeBron shot 37.4% on 5.8 attempts per game from 3 in the playoffs. An elite shooter by dankok's logic! Let's see if he's consistent here

Why wouldn't I be consistent? That Lebron was a very good 3pt shooter.

[RRR3]

Why wouldn't I be consistent? That Lebron was a very good 3pt shooter.

No he wasn’t, and LeBron is my favorite player

Players can get hot over small periods of time and have it influence numbers. Even guys who aren’t great shooters can have whole seasons shooting 3s pretty well. Westbrook shot 3s competently in 2017 for instance.

[3ba11]

.
best left-hand drive in history?







funniest shit ever was the guy that drew a bunch of arrows showing that MJ went right a lot.. surely that guy was being purposefully comical.

[Axe]

.
best left-hand drive in history?







funniest shit ever was the guy that drew a bunch of arrows showing that MJ went right a lot.. surely that guy was being purposefully comical.

1-9

[dankok8]

No he wasn’t, and LeBron is my favorite player

Players can get hot over small periods of time and have it influence numbers. Even guys who aren’t great shooters can have whole seasons shooting 3s pretty well. Westbrook shot 3s competently in 2017 for instance.

Uh huh and... Westbrook in 2017 was a decent 3pt shooter. I'm not going to pretend the man couldn't shoot if he makes 34.3% of his threes for an entire season. Likewise I won't pretend that 2017-2021 playoff Lebron can't shoot when he made 37.4% of his threes over 67 games. In fact in Lebron's case, he's not only decent but clearly above average.

Small sample is like 10 or 20 games. Already around 50 or so games, numbers begin to stabilize and around 80 games, the variance that you see is quite small.

The Thinking Basketball website has a fun and free feature named "player trends" where you can see rolling averages for player shooting. Take Lebron from 2017 to present set it to a 20-game moving average and the 3pt shooting variance is quite large with fluctuations from about 23% to 45%. But then set it to a 82-game moving average and his shooting is always between 33% and 39%. And he spent the vast majority of the time between 35% and 37%. With a full season sample, the data becomes quite stable. Maybe a 37% shooter is really a 35% on a hot streak but that's as far as it goes. Basically if you're shooting 37% from 3pt range over 67 games, you're almost certainly an above average 3pt shooter.

https://thinkingbasketball.net/player-trends/

Of course a more detailed analysis into a player's 3pt shooting could get into the type of shots taken (pull up vs. spot up), defensive attention (open vs. contested), rhythm (in flow vs. out of flow), distance of 3pt shots (23 feet vs. half court heave) etc.