Is Grayson Allen better than Bradley Beal?

[warriorfan]

40% from 3 is like 60% from 2

[tpols]

He was at an even 40%, which is good but in today’s game I dont know if thats considered ‘elite’ for a floor spacer. Seth Curry shoots a career 43% and hes barely hanging on in the league. Grant Williams for instance shoots 38% from three on his career.

So again I say, Grayson Allen shooting 40% long range just makes him another guy today. He’s a reasonably scrappy and savvy player beyond shooting so he can still get minutes at that percentage. But it doesnt make him someone who is meaningfully above replacement. Again, Milwaukee traded him because they were still looking for that guy in the backcourt. He was ok but he wasnt a difference maker.

40% 3pt shooting is literally the gold standard for 3pt shooting along with 90% FT and 50% FG. Thats what the 50/40/90 club name was built on. It's elite anyway you slice it. He's doing 47 now but his baseline has been long since established.

Seth Curry doing 43% isn't a counter point since he's one of the best shooters in the game. May as well bring up old school Kyle Korver. The difference is those guys were horrible defenders while Grayson is a very good one. To the point people call him dirty. (which a lot of good or great defenders were ~ ie Rodman, Artest, Bowen etc.)

[FultzNationRISE]

For guys that shoot a decent amount of 3s this year (300 attempts or more) only 15 of them shoot 40 percent or higher.

I think it's safe to say 40 percent is very very good for a floor spacer.

300 is an arbitrary cutoff. Simone Fontecchio has 296 attempts and shoots 40%. Lu Dort has taken 292 and shoots 40%. Lebron has 297, 41%.

Tyler Herro 293 attempts. Mike Conley 292. Jalen Suggs 293. Norman Powell, Nas Reid at 289.

All at 40%. Nobody calls them elite shooters.

You get the picture?

[FultzNationRISE]

40% from 3 is like 60% from 2

And thats why games are so high scoring now. Cuz you got guys all over the place doing those numbers.

It’s like actual inflation. It takes people a while to really rewire themselves to think of 20 bucks an hour as a burger flipper job. That used to be what repair technicians made. If you go back even farther thats what lawyers charged.

The definition of “elite” is evolving but peoples perception takes time to catch up.

[Carbine]

300 is an arbitrary cutoff. Simone Fontecchio has 296 attempts and shoots 40%. Lu Dort has taken 292 and shoots 40%. Lebron has 297, 41%.

Tyler Herro 293 attempts. Mike Conley 292. Jalen Suggs 293. Norman Powell, Nas Reid at 289.

All at 40%. Nobody calls them elite shooters.

You get the picture?

Ok, add those 8 and you're at 23 players total in the league. That's still a low number. You're in the upper echelon any way you slice it.

[Carbine]

Also, I'm sure the number is fairly low of guys who averaged 40 percent on threes over a four year period.

[tpols]

^^^

And Grayson is outshooting all of them by a lot.

It's funny you say it's inflation for everybody else to shoot 40% but when Allen does 47% he's just performing over his head.

Your main point is everybody saw an increase in today's game so why would Allen's increase not count?

[FultzNationRISE]

Ok, add those 8 and you're at 23 players total in the league. That's still a low number. You're in the upper echelon any way you slice it.

Ok but if you narrow it down to floor spacers only, since guys like Giannis, Luka, Lebron arent expected to be snipers, and same with guys like Chet and Victor and other bigs with broader roles, and you look purely at floor spacing rotation players, 23 isnt such a small number. Plus you have probably another 30 or so guys in the 38-39% range which is within a single margin of error from 40 and is not significantly different statistically .

Its just not the rarified benchmark youre used to thinking of it as.

[FultzNationRISE]

^^^

And Grayson is outshooting all of them by a lot.

It's funny you say it's inflation for everybody else to shoot 40% but when Allen does 47% he's just performing over his head.

Your main point is everybody saw an increase in today's game so why would Allen's increase not count?

I didnt say it “doesnt count.” Count for what?

I said I suspect he will not continue to shoot 47% from three for the rest of his career.

You really think thats going out on a limb?

[tpols]

I didnt say it “doesnt count.” Count for what?

I said I suspect he will not continue to shoot 47% from three for the rest of his career.

You really think thats going out on a limb?

I also don't think Lou Dort will continue to shoot at 40+%. Graysons averages may come down... others will too. I can pretty much guarantee you his numbers end year will be top notch.

I honestly don't even know how why you're downplaying them. You're the guy who hates chuckers and "stars" who ball hog and play no defense. And Grayson is literally the exact opposite of that and you're just brushing it off.

[FultzNationRISE]

I also don't think Lou Dort will continue to shoot at 40+%. Graysons averages may come down... others will too. I can pretty much guarantee you his numbers end year will be top notch.

I honestly don't even know how why you're downplaying them. You're the guy who hates chuckers and "stars" who ball hog and play no defense. And Grayson is literally the exact opposite of that and you're just brushing it off.

I think youre losing track of whats even being said just to keep an argument afloat.

I explicitly said if he keeps shooting this way hes very valuable. If he shoots a more typical 40% he’s just another rotation guy.

I cant tell if youre disagreeing with those statements or if youre changing my words so you can disagree with something I didnt say, or what the hell’s going on. But I stand by the things I myself actually said.

[Carbine]

I don't know how good Allen is on defense but if he's really a borderline All-NBA type perimeter defender, while shooting 40 percent....

If you think those guys are a dime a dozen I don't know what to tell you. If Seth could play even average defense he would be a valuable commodity to any team.

Danny Green was very very valuable to the Spurs in the early 2010 championship runs. He was not easily replaceable.

[FultzNationRISE]

I don't know how good Allen is on defense but if he's really a borderline All-NBA type perimeter defender, while shooting 40 percent....

If you think those guys are a dime a dozen I don't know what to tell you. If Seth could play even average defense he would be a valuable commodity to any team.

Danny Green was very very valuable to the Spurs in the early 2010 championship runs. He was not easily replaceable.

Ive never seen any metrics or suggestion that Allen is a borderline all-D player. My own perspective having watched him is that he’s solid. Im sure it helped his cause the last couple years playing with Giannis and Brook and Jrue. As an individual my view is he’s… solid.

So again, 40% on threes and a good defender is Lu Dort. It’s Grant Williams. It’s more or less Alex Caruso who shoots 38%. And probably a bunch of other guys.

It’s not some “elite” benchmark anymore unless you define elite very loosely.

[tontoz]

Let's not overlook how lame Beal has been, 18 ppg with average efficiency and weak defense for $47 million. When you add in the missed games he's been an awful addition so far.

Allen has played 23 more games than Beal.

[j3lademaster]

In a vacuum, no. He’s a better fit alongside KD and Booker though.

For a 3rd option to thrive alongside 2 stars they need to be an elite shooter and Grayson provides that at a level that Beal can’t.

If you’re starting a team from scratch then you’re probably going Beal.

but Beal is no good as a second option, let alone first; thus Allen provides more value and is a better player. Beal is more talented though.