Why are the Kyrie and Luka Doncic duo ain't working?

[tontoz]

Brunson.

Brunson averaged 21 with 4 assists in the playoffs that year. He was good but Luka averaged 36/10/8 with better efficiency.

[90sgoat]

Brunson averaged 21 with 4 assists in the playoffs that year. He was good but Luka averaged 36/10/8 with better efficiency.

Brunson is a leader, unlike Luka.

[tontoz]

Brunson is a leader, unlike Luka.

The scoreboard doesn't care who the leader is.

The scoreboard says Luka has been the leading scorer in the playoffs the last two seasons he got there.

[Axe]

It's probably time for luka to go on another team.

[NBAGOAT]

not enough talent and defense around them. the duo plays really well but you cant compete with the celtics or nuggets or even wolves starting 5 or the big 3 of a team like clips/thunder. bucks have middleton/lopez as their 3rd and 4th guy mavs have lively and like pj washington

[hold this L]

It's not the IQ, he's just an egomaniac.

People just didn't see it because was 21 years old and smiling all the time. Well, now he's 25 and about to get his second coach fired and miss the playoffs for two straight seasons.

I'd say he has the worst from both Harden and Iverson, rapidly approaching Melo.

Cmon man, that's too much. He already made a conference finals, but I agree he is a massive asshole that people don't like playing with.

[hold this L]

The scoreboard doesn't care who the leader is.

The scoreboard says Luka has been the leading scorer in the playoffs the last two seasons he got there.

Yeah and that results say that one guy made the SF conference finals while the other during the playoffs was..

Duo is working. They just don't play defense and tend to fall apart when Luka sits on the bench.

They had a better and more balanced team 2 years ago during their WCF and they inexplicably decided to blow it up.

No they don't. +2 with him on and -2 with him off. Jokic for example is +10 on and -10 off. That's what falling apart actually looks like.

[ImKobe]

No they don't. +2 with him on and -2 with him off. Jokic for example is +10 on and -10 off. That's what falling apart actually looks like.

He has a +6.3 Net Rating and is the 3rd most impactful player in the league currently in terms of EPM (+7.5), ahead of Jokic (+6.6). Jokic is actually worse on defense according to EPM.

They're a +5.5 when Kyrie and Luka are both on the court, and -9.7 with both on the bench. The defense barely improves (~2 points per 100) while the offense falls apart when Luka's on the bench overall.

[90sgoat]

I don't respect any player that refuses to play defense, because then you expect everyone else to pick up the slack and that's just feeling as if you're better than everyone else.

Even Lebron played defense. Magic tried, Bird hustled, Kobe tried until his knees were shot, MJ tried, Barkley rebounded and tried, Shaq tried.

There's no all time great who didn't try playing defense. Lots of top 30 guys who would have been top 10-ish if they played defense.

[Xiao Yao You]

I don't respect any player that refuses to play defense, because then you expect everyone else to pick up the slack and that's just feeling as if you're better than everyone else.

Even Lebron played defense. Magic tried, Bird hustled, Kobe tried until his knees were shot, MJ tried, Barkley rebounded and tried, Shaq tried.

There's no all time great who didn't try playing defense. Lots of top 30 guys who would have been top 10-ish if they played defense.

Yep! I at least need effort at both ends of the floor if not results

[FKAri]

Yep! I at least need effort at both ends of the floor if not results

Only due to human psychology. Guys will try harder on one end if they're getting the ball at the other end. They'll try harder if their shot is falling and/or the team is on a run. They'll try harder if the star looks like he's going hard too. etc..

Otherwise, I'd want to see an increase in effort only if its leading to better results. Not everyone's effort is a 1:1 with effectiveness. Nor is everyone's effort equally valuable. If I have a guy like Steph who's running off screens and fighting through defenders on one end, I don't want him to exert as much energy on D as Draymond.

[Xiao Yao You]

Only due to human psychology. Guys will try harder on one end if they're getting the ball at the other end. They'll try harder if their shot is falling and/or the team is on a run. They'll try harder if the star looks like he's going hard too. etc..

Otherwise, I'd want to see an increase in effort only if its leading to better results. Not everyone's effort is a 1:1 with effectiveness. Nor is everyone's effort equally valuable. If I have a guy like Steph who's running off screens and fighting through defenders on one end, I don't want him to exert as much energy on D as Draymond.

that was the Jazz excuse for Mitchell not playing D while Gobert relentlessly set screens, rolled to the basket, pounded the offensive glass, blocked others off the boards, defended Mitchell's guy at the other end...

[90sgoat]

Only due to human psychology. Guys will try harder on one end if they're getting the ball at the other end. They'll try harder if their shot is falling and/or the team is on a run. They'll try harder if the star looks like he's going hard too. etc..

Otherwise, I'd want to see an increase in effort only if its leading to better results. Not everyone's effort is a 1:1 with effectiveness. Nor is everyone's effort equally valuable. If I have a guy like Steph who's running off screens and fighting through defenders on one end, I don't want him to exert as much energy on D as Draymond.

I think everyone is able to tell the difference between "not good, but effort is there", "trying but not able", "doing the minimum but doing it" and "not giving a ****".

Luka is currently at "not giving a ****" and he needs to at least be at "doing the minimum" every single defensive possession. There can't be situations where he simple lets the opponent walk past him.

[90sgoat]

that was the Jazz excuse for Mitchell not playing D while Gobert relentlessly set screens, rolled to the basket, pounded the offensive glass, blocked others off the boards, defended Mitchell's guy at the other end...

This is why I think Mavs should have done everything possible to get Gobert to match with Luka. Can't imagine a better fit.

[FKAri]

that was the Jazz excuse for Mitchell not playing D while Gobert relentlessly set screens, rolled to the basket, pounded the offensive glass, blocked others off the boards, defended Mitchell's guy at the other end...

Made sense tho. Rudy saving his energy for the offensive end isn't really netting me the same results as DMitch doing it. A balance needs to be found. That's where coaches come in. But like I said it's complicated by the human element, i.e. "why am I having to work harder than that guy". These thoughts are in their heads even if only subconsciously so.