Percentage of team points scored at 38 yrs old - 24.7% for MJ vs. 21.8% for Lebron

[SouBeachTalents]

lol putting up numbers vs a bunch of rookies is no achievement. League used to be full of grown ass men, now you got kids who don't know a thing about playing defense and they're on tanking teams & are expected to lose on purpose to tank for lottery picks. Sad.

Tough night for him too

[ShawkFactory]

lol putting up numbers vs a bunch of rookies is no achievement. League used to be full of grown ass men, now you got kids who don't know a thing about playing defense and they're on tanking teams & are expected to lose on purpose to tank for lottery picks. Sad.

Lol. Lebron had a great game tonight against a bad team. Not a huge deal but everyone else was off and he dominated.

It's okay.

[ShawkFactory]

both average 5 APG except Jordan averaged far less turnovers, while also being a better defender

So MJ was better at 38 than Lebron due to higher burden (percentage of team pts), equal assists, lower turnovers, better defense and near-equal scoring despite playing in a league that allowed 15-20 less ppg

His jumpshooting style also yielded a superior brand of ball that allowed a .500 record (when he played) with far less help than Lebron currently has - Lebron might have the best roster in the league, while Jordan had arguably the worst.

but carry on

Jordan: 20.7 PER, .075 WS/48, 3.1 BPM, 2.7 VORP

Lebron: 24.9 PER, .161 WS/48, 7.1 BPM, 4.5 VORP (on pace for should he play 60 games like Jordan did in 02)

[StrongLurk]

Usage

02' Jordan....... 36% (25% of team pts)
23' Lebron....... 30% (22% of team pts)

So Lebron has better efficiency and advanced stats due to a much lower burden and doesn't face the same defensive attention because AD is a top 75 player and frequently leads the team

Accordingly, the thread title is about how 38-year Jordan had a much higher burden than 38-year Lebron, who has completely stacked his team with the best roster in the league, so he has small burden and low defensive attention compared to Mike.. This is the case for Lebron's entire career - he always had far greater scoring help for his entire career, and therefore never carried the burden that Jordan did.

Ultimately, Jordan took on the challenge of trying to carry a bad team to the playoffs and had the 4 seed before he got hurt, while Lebron stacked his team and would never take on such a challenge at 38 or at any point after his first couple years in the league.. That's the only time he was willing to carry a weak team, whereas Mike was willing to do it at 38 and 40

Another shameless post from the resident crazy person.

[warriorfan]

Another shameless post from the resident crazy person.

he has a point

jordan played on a shit team in much different era

[Keno]

jordan was a washed up, degenerate gambler at that age. he's not built like legoat.

[3ba11]

jordan was a washed up, degenerate gambler at that age. he's not built like legoat.

If we gave 38-year MJ the best roster in the league so he doesn't have to carry the team, then he would have the same advanced stats as Lebron.. Regardless, MJ was a better winner and clutch player at 38 years old than lebron, and again, the only reason his advanced stats and efficiency don't match up is due to the higher burden (see thread title) of playing on a shit team vs the best roster in the league that lebron has

but carry on

38-year MJ was willing to take on the challenge of carrying a bad team to the playoffs, while Lebron requires the best roster in the league and is otherwise terrified to try what Jordan did.. it's night and day.. MJ was far superior in every way including these kinds of intangibles (superior mentally)

[sdot_thadon]

If we gave 38-year MJ the best roster in the league so he doesn't have to carry the team, then he would have the same advanced stats as Lebron.. Regardless, MJ was a better winner and clutch player at 38 years old than lebron, and again, the only reason his advanced stats and efficiency don't match up is due to the higher burden (see thread title) of playing on a shit team vs the best roster in the league that lebron has

but carry on

38-year MJ was willing to take on the challenge of carrying a bad team to the playoffs, while Lebron requires the best roster in the league and is otherwise terrified to try what Jordan did.. it's night and day.. MJ was far superior in every way including these kinds of intangibles (superior mentally)

Newsflash, Mj played with the roster......he put together. If I were him, I'd have just made a Pippen since he could do that at will.

[3ba11]

Newsflash, Mj played with the roster......he put together. If I were him, I'd have just made a Pippen since he could do that at will.

We can only compare Lebron and MJ with equal burdens - so let's give Lebron a crap roster where he's forced to have 6 points higher in usage and 3 points higher in percentage of team points - then his advanced stats will reduce below MJ's..

Lebron simply stacked the deck for an easy ride - he's never been able to carry the usage burden or percentage of points burden that Jordan did while still maintaining equal or better stats.

[sdot_thadon]

We can only compare Lebron and MJ with equal burdens - so let's give Lebron a crap roster where he's forced to have 6 points higher in usage and 3 points higher in percentage of team points - then his advanced stats will reduce below MJ's..

Lebron simply stacked the deck for an easy ride - he's never been able to carry the usage burden or percentage of points burden that Jordan did while still maintaining equal or better stats.

You can't because it didn't happend so you're just left making a hypothetical comparison with a hypothetical version of a player that never existed vs. Lebron. You literally have to dream up a player to compare him to at this point.

[3ba11]

You can't because it didn't happend so you're just left making a hypothetical comparison with a hypothetical version of a player that never existed vs. Lebron. You literally have to dream up a player to compare him to at this point.

it isn't hypothetical - Jordan's usage at 38 was 6 points higher than current Lebron, while his percentage of team points was also higher (thread title)..

so it isn't hypothetical - Jordan's burden was far higher due to his crap roster, while Lebron's burden is far less due to the best roster in the league.. Obviously, if we gave Lebron the same kind of team and burden that Jordan had, his easy road would be over and his stats would plummet.

[sdot_thadon]

it isn't hypothetical - Jordan's usage at 38 was 6 points higher than current Lebron, while his percentage of team points was also higher (thread title)..

so it isn't hypothetical - Jordan's burden was far higher due to his crap roster, while Lebron's burden is far less due to the best roster in the league.. Obviously, if we gave Lebron the same kind of team and burden that Jordan had, his easy road would be over and his stats would plummet.

His usage was higher because who tf was going to tell their GM not to shoot even tho he was not great from the field? You have this burden thing twisted. Mj shot because Mj wanted to shoot lol. He got guys shipped out of there on the court lol.

[3ba11]

His usage was higher because who tf was going to tell their GM not to shoot even tho he was not great from the field? You have this burden thing twisted. Mj shot because Mj wanted to shoot lol. He got guys shipped out of there on the court lol.

MJ shot because he didn't have anyone close to AD as a teammate, or all-star like D-Lo as 3rd option, or a bevy of hand-picked elite role players filling the rest of the roster..

MJ had Jahidi White and Popeye Jones, while Lebron has a completely stacked roster than most believe is the best in the league.

And if we look at those Bulls teams, we know that Pippen's peak capability is 22 ppg (14 outside the triangle), which means that Jordan's shots were required on those teams too - it's simple math - teammates were playing at or near capacity, so all of Jordan's scoring was needed..

Imagine a team that needs 41 ppg to win a Finals - that is a bad team with shit roster - yet that's what the Bulls needed from 93' MJ... The Bulls and Suns both averaged 106.7 ppg and 113.0 ORTG in that series, so all of MJ's 41 ppg was needed.. Meanwhile, Pippen shot 46% TS in that series, so he was ABOVE capacity (bigger load than he could handle)

[sdot_thadon]

it isn't hypothetical - Jordan's usage at 38 was 6 points higher than current Lebron, while his percentage of team points was also higher (thread title)..

so it isn't hypothetical - Jordan's burden was far higher due to his crap roster, while Lebron's burden is far less due to the best roster in the league.. Obviously, if we gave Lebron the same kind of team and burden that Jordan had, his easy road would be over and his stats would plummet.

Actually, nah. Mj had the no.1 pick in the draft that he reverse pippened aka ruined, he had Rip Hamilton who was traded in hindsight, for maybe being too good. He had Stackhouse who was a near 30ppg scorer just a couple years previously. He had Larry "the allstar" Hughes or did he only become that with the Lebron rub? It wasn't his team, he just wasn't able to do what he used to, it happens. 2 years later with a lot of the same guys they were in the postseason. Their best 2 guys got a lot younger.

[ShawkFactory]

MJ shot because he didn't have anyone close to AD as a teammate, or all-star like D-Lo as 3rd option, or a bevy of hand-picked elite role players filling the rest of the roster..

MJ had Jahidi White and Popeye Jones, while Lebron has a completely stacked roster than most believe is the best in the league.

And if we look at those Bulls teams, we know that Pippen's peak capability is 22 ppg (14 outside the triangle), which means that Jordan's shots were required on those teams too - it's simple math - teammates were playing at or near capacity, so all of Jordan's scoring was needed..

Imagine a team that needs 41 ppg to win a Finals - that is a bad team with shit roster - yet that's what the Bulls needed from 93' MJ... The Bulls and Suns both averaged 106.7 ppg and 113.0 ORTG in that series, so all of MJ's 41 ppg was needed.. Meanwhile, Pippen shot 46% TS in that series, so he was ABOVE capacity (bigger load than he could handle)