Top 10 most overrated list which exists just to farm engagement.

[Overdrive]

Iverson criticism is almost exclusively a stat nerd thing. Well, not so much a nerd, but definitely an analytical type who is fighting about it on the Internet. If you could find a way to measure the percentage of a persons haters who can’t actually play basketball? I’d have to imagine he will be really high on the list of people who see the game as a collection of numbers.

i’m not 100% certain I’ve ever heard verbal Iverson hate. I’ve known people who liked him less than others but the kind of shit you see online? I’ve never known it to come from a person I can verify isnt artificial intelligence. Strictly an Internet “nerd” kind of thing.

perhaps it’s a demographic issue, but I have never personally known anybody who talks about Allen Iverson with the term is used on the Internet. Nor do I really see it from people in the game. He might will be the all-time percentage leader far is how much of his criticism comes from people who can’t play basketball and are dying to type numbers at you that nobody who plays basketball cares about.

Same. Neither in real time nor after the fact have I ever seen people, people who actually play, attack Iversonblike people do on the internet.

I also find it rich that giys like Xiao praise the shit out of Stockton while the criticize Iverson, Kidd et al for their efficiency.

What exactly has Stockton achieved? He played with a scoring machine from a young age. Neither Kidd nor Iverson played with a player as good for an extended period.

OT: While I praised him just a second ago I think Malone gets way more overrated than Stockton from those 80s/90s Jazz.

The list itself is totally wack and imo the most overrated player I've seen live is post retirement Reggie. Media and people act like he was some rival for Jordan and some really great scorer, while he was a passive off ball scorer, who didn't look to score half a game.

[RRR3]

Same. Neither in real time nor after the fact have I ever seen people, people who actually play, attack Iversonblike people do on the internet.

I also find it rich that giys like Xiao praise the shit out of Stockton while the criticize Iverson, Kidd et al for their efficiency.

What exactly has Stockton achieved? He played with a scoring machine from a young age. Neither Kidd nor Iverson played with a player as good for an extended period.

OT: While I praised him just a second ago I think Malone gets way more overrated than Stockton from those 80s/90s Jazz.

The list itself is totally wack and imo the most overrated player I've seen live is post retirement Reggie. Media and people act like he was some rival for Jordan and some really great scorer, while he was a passive off ball scorer, who didn't look to score half a game.

Xiao has zero consistency. He tries to pretend his views on players are objective but they're not at all and just based off who he likes. He says he hates guys who don't play defense but he stanned George Niang and Adrian Dantley hard. He says he hates guys who don't play offense but he loves guys like Gobert. He says he hates low efficiency guys but he praises Anthony Edwards and says he's better than the much more efficient KAT. He says he loves guys who play elite d but he hates on Kidd, Eaton, and Rubio. He says he hates guys who don't pass but he loves Adrian Dantley like I said before. He says he loves elite two way players but he shits on AD and Embiid. Just a guy with favorites and zero objectivity.

[Kblaze8855]

analytics weren't a thing in '96 and he was still a low iq, low efficiency player anyway you want to look at it. I can play basketball. I can't imagine playing basketball like Iverson or The Bum though

as has been shown time and time again, the extreme vast majority of even stars who play the way you think they should don’t get any better results. 100 Hall of Famer’s didn’t win shit Allen Iverson didn’t even though half of them played on teams with more Prime Star power than he ever had. A certain kind of person is just going to pick on players like Allen Iverson because they feeeeeeel a certain way that they don’t feel about several other people who can, and have been mobbed up on the same team at the same time and get no results.

people have been taking two other prime All-Star caliber guys and 54% shooting their way to 43 wins and a first round exit for 75 years. Guys like Iverson just rubbed certain people wrong.

let prime Allen Iverson have Dirk +3 other All-Stars on one team and lose in the first round. It would get mentioned so often we would have to delete the repeat topics like 3ball bullshit.

but we don’t talk about it with Nash or how they let him walk and gave his money to Eric Dampier and brought in Jason Terry and the team got better with less talent.

Certain numbers and play styles get stat nerd ******* wet, so they will overlook overwhelming evidence that pretty much every style of play is going to mostly lose and their hate is incredibly selective and turns a blind eye to most results.

Very little consistency in the arguments, despite consistency being one of the big talking points from that crowd.

[Xiao Yao You]

Same. Neither in real time nor after the fact have I ever seen people, people who actually play, attack Iversonblike people do on the internet.

I also find it rich that giys like Xiao praise the shit out of Stockton while the criticize Iverson, Kidd et al for their efficiency.

What exactly has Stockton achieved? He played with a scoring machine from a young age. Neither Kidd nor Iverson played with a player as good for an extended period.

OT: While I praised him just a second ago I think Malone gets way more overrated than Stockton from those 80s/90s Jazz.

The list itself is totally wack and imo the most overrated player I've seen live is post retirement Reggie. Media and people act like he was some rival for Jordan and some really great scorer, while he was a passive off ball scorer, who didn't look to score half a game.

Stockton played the game it was supposed to be played as a team. It's not supposed to be played 1 on 5. I realize today's fans don't really get that with the emphasis on iso

[Xiao Yao You]

can't quit me!

[Overdrive]

Stockton played the game it was supposed to be played as a team. It's not supposed to be played 1 on 5. I realize today's fans don't really get that with the emphasis on iso

What did his teams accomplish that AI's or Kidd's didn't?

[Kblaze8855]

Stockton played the game it was supposed to be played as a team. It's not supposed to be played 1 on 5. I realize today's fans don't really get that with the emphasis on iso

To what effect?

What does “the right way” buy you when the other team scored more points than your team when it matters?

People really struggle getting their heads around the fact that the score board doesn’t give a **** how efficiently you score less points than the other team did. If you can play with an MVP caliber player for something like 14-15 years in a row with supporting casts including 20ppg sixth men, DPOYs, great shooting former all stars(plural) and so on…. And lose your entire life? Whatever you’re doing isn’t THAT effective. Out here losing in the first round with multiple 55+ win teams. One 60 win team I believe.

What is the real world game application of playing the right way on the way to the same couch the guy who supposedly plays the wrong way is going to watch the rest of the playoffs with you from?

It’s like having a beautiful form on a jumper that never goes in. Can your jumper be textbook and flawless when the ball consistently doesn’t go in the basket? If so….what use is the “textbook” form?

[tpols]

Same. Neither in real time nor after the fact have I ever seen people, people who actually play, attack Iversonblike people do on the internet.

I also find it rich that giys like Xiao praise the shit out of Stockton while the criticize Iverson, Kidd et al for their efficiency.

What exactly has Stockton achieved? He played with a scoring machine from a young age. Neither Kidd nor Iverson played with a player as good for an extended period.

OT: While I praised him just a second ago I think Malone gets way more overrated than Stockton from those 80s/90s Jazz.

The list itself is totally wack and imo the most overrated player I've seen live is post retirement Reggie. Media and people act like he was some rival for Jordan and some really great scorer, while he was a passive off ball scorer, who didn't look to score half a game.

Kidd took one of the worst defenses in the league and made them #1 rank. He's by far the best defensive and rebounding PG of all time. Talking about a guy outrebounding prime Ben Wallace in playoff series. Great passer too.

His main weakness was his scoring ability. The thing about Iverson was the only thing he was good at was scoring but he even did that inefficiently.

Jkidd probably won triple or quadruple the amount of playoff games Iverson won. I'm not gonna look it up... but it may be way more than that.

[Kblaze8855]

Kidd took one of the worst defenses in the league and made them #1 rank. He's by far the best defensive and rebounding PG of all time. Talking about a guy outrebounding prime Ben Wallace in playoff series. Great passer too.

His main weakness was his scoring ability. The thing about Iverson was the only thing he was good at was scoring but he even did that inefficiently.

Jkidd probably won triple or quadruple the amount of playoff games Iverson won. I'm not gonna look it up... but it may be way more than that.

off the top of my head as best player it’s nine series wins versus six. Kidd then won more as a lesser player on the Mavs.

through their primes it’s 9 to 6 and Kidd didn’t win a playoff series till he was like 29.

He went and shot 31% in the playoffs once and beat up his wife which along with I believe a DUI forced him out of Phoenix and it wasn’t even his worst playoff showing.

he shot 0-8 for 0 points in 42 minutes(7assists 5 rebounds) in a game seven loss of a series he shot 28% in at his peak.

kidd has statistically some of the ugliest performances in history. Not that I care. But some of you(selectively) do.

[tpols]

What Kidd did on the mavs counts. While Iverson was kicked out of the league because he could never assimilate as anything other than a shot jacker, Kidd was still playing a hugely important role assist leader and floor general on a championship team.

[Xiao Yao You]

What did his teams accomplish that AI's or Kidd's didn't?

Who cares? The worst thing I can say about Stockton is was too unselfish and too loyal to the Jazz. You can have Kidd and Iverson. I'd want nothing to do with either

[Kblaze8855]

I don’t care what you are anybody wants to count I’ve been saying on here for 20 years when you ask me about a player I’m not talking about the declines version. You don’t see me talking about 2007 Tracy McGrady and you don’t see me judging Jason Kidd, by what he was when he was old. That said he was in fact, the coach killing malcontent criminal inefficient player a lot of people accuse Iversen of being. Jason Kidd organized a mutiny to get his college coach fired. Was in a love triangle with a teammates girlfriend that broke up a promising core in Dallas when he demanded a trade. Went to Phoenix and started beating up his wife in front of his kid(pled guilty) and drinking while driving. After things went bad on the nets he got at least one coach fired and later pools of James Harden and refused to play and ****ed over Lawrence Frank and demanded another trade.

Jason Kidd skated through the whole era as a cancerous, teammate alienating, coach killing, trade demanding, wife beating, drunk driving, inefficient, surly injury faking asshole.

and I love him. Wifebeating aside of course. And drunk driving.

Id take both he and Iverson on my franchise any time. It’s just hilarious the reputation he managed to keep because he rose and fell before social media.

[red1]

I appreciate this list. Im sure they can make their arguments.

completely subjective obviously. you could argue these players to be underrated.

I would argue derozan is UNDERRATED because his stats dont do him justice. he owns the worst all-time worst playoff plus minus (had deep runs on young teams) - in reality he got a young franchise to its first conference finals as the first option


would have been a champion if he played as the second option as a contender. he never got the chance.


my personal most overrated of all time is


1. kobe
2. chris bosh
3. durant

underrated:

1. wade
2. kawhi
3. pierce

[tpols]

Most of what you said was off the court stuff. And acting like Iverson didn't beat his wife and throw her out on the front lawn.

I generally don't bring that stuff up though. I don't care what these guys did in their personal lives, a lot of them are on some power hungry scumbag shit.

On the court though? Kidd is by far the most elite defensive and rebounding player at his position and a brilliant passer. There's a reason he won way more basketball games than Iverson did.

It's kind of wierd Xiao hates him though. He wasn't a gunner and played elite defense. That seems to be his "type". But apparently not lol.

[Kblaze8855]

Who cares? The worst thing I can say about Stockton is was too unselfish and too loyal to the Jazz. You can have Kidd and Iverson. I'd want nothing to do with either

The “who cares” kind of throws out the meat of the argument about what the right way is. If the supposed right way doesn’t lead to any more success, despite greater resources? The “rightness” is a bit questionable.

John Stockton wouldn’t do a single ****ing thing worth talking about if he were in the place of Jason Kidd. There’s absolutely no evidence to suggest it.

When being too unselfish brings about the same result as being too selfish, the difference doesn’t much matter.

Unselfishly watching your team score less than the opponent as you get knocked out of the playoffs isn’t the right way to play anymore than shooting your team out of the game is. You might prefer to play with the overly unselfish guy, but it’s the guy with a balance who is closer to playing the right way. And even he’s going to lose almost all the time as well.

A lot of this right way. Wrong way shit is just people keeping up for their favorite players regardless of what evidence they are use. People just like who they like. Do you like John Stockton. You don’t like Allen Iverson. I like both of them because I can appreciate pretty much any style of greatness.

Give me Stockton or Iverson or Kidd. I’m happy. And all 3 are probably gonna lose 15 years in a row.