Why I don't blame Pippen for his views on Jordan and the Bulls.

[Da_Realist]

And what do you expect me to say about BJ Armstrong and Horace Grant? Lol. I mean they're good players, but I don't see them as being good enough to be the best player on a Championship team. An important piece? Absolutely. The best player? No.

Exactly how I and most people that watched his whole career feel about Scottie Pippen. Great player. Not good enough to be the best player on a championship team. Not really the lead dog. Great complimentary player that will do the dirty work and provide much unseen value to the team but being the face and #1 leader of the team? He was not that dude. Even Pippen tacitly acknowledged it when he begged MJ on camera to come back during the 94-95 season. Pippen did well when the Bulls were slept on and nobody expected much from them, but he had a history of shutting down then things got hot. Things got hot in Game 7 1990 ECF against Detroit which he admitted to not being able to "ring the bell". Things got a little hot in Game 7 ECSF vs the Knicks (remember X-Men bullying Pippen?). Things got a little hot in Game 6 Finals vs Phoenix when the Bulls almost gave the game away and looked scared. MJ scored all the points leading up to the Paxson game winner. Things got hot in Game 3 1994 ECSF vs the Knicks down 0-2. Things got hot in Game 5 1997 Finals with MJ sick as a dog. If ever there was a game that should have pulled the alpha "I got this, Mike" out of Pippen, it would have been that one. But it wasn't there. Pippen did what Pippen did: the dirty work while MJ led the way sick. He did what was needed but he wasn't that guy. Things got hot in the 1998 ECF vs Indiana in Game 4. Bulls up 1 with less than 5 seconds to go, Pippen missed both free throws which led to the Reggie Miller game winner that extended the series and almost cost the Bulls the series. Things got hot in Game 7 2000 ECF vs the Lakers. Another opportunity for Pippen to show off the "myriad of ways" he could lead a team but the Blazers coughed up a 15 point lead going into the 4th quarter like a team of rookies on Pippen's watch. All that championship experience...what was it good for? The Blazers needed that guy but didn't have one.

See...no one talks about those missed free throws because it was Scottie Pippen and no one expected him to be the hero. If it had been MJ that missed both free throws that cost the team the game it would be talked about all day every day. Because he was expected to be that guy. Just like if Kobe or LeBron or Barkley missed. Everyone knows Karl Malone missed the two free throws that cost the Jazz Game 1 of the 1997 Finals. That will be etched on his tombstone. "The Mailman don't deliver on Sundays". But Pippen's crucial misses are forgotten.

I love Pippen. I still do. I don't care about their personal lives though I wish he and MJ work things out. Just like I wish MJ and Isiah work things out. But I concern myself with on court basketball. And on the court, MJ and Pippen had amazing chemistry and symmetry. Championship level...I should say ChampionshipS level symmetry. But Pippen was who he was. He was not that guy and that's ok. But outrebounding MJ by 20 over a course of 6 championship seasons doesn't change what we saw.

[theman93]

I never said Pippen won 55 games by himself. The argument seems to be rather or not Pippen could LEAD a team. And those two Allstars Pippen had? Were 3rd and 4th guys for Jordan. Why is Pippen expected to win with less help? We've addressed all these issues already. I'm not saying Pippens teammates in 94 were bums bro. That's what I'm hearing from the Jordanites.

Like when someone said that if Pippen were good enough to lead a team to a title, he should've won in o4 becaue Kerr, Kukoc (rookie Kukoc) and Wennington replaced Jordan lol. Yall can't get out of your own way. Would you trade Micahel Jordan for Steve Kerr, Toni Kukoc, and Bill Wennington?

And what do you expect me to say about BJ Armstrong and Horace Grant? Lol. I mean they're good players, but I don't see them as being good enough to be the best player on a Championship team. An important piece? Absolutely. The best player? No.

But if you go back and look at this thread, I have argued on behalf of the team.
I said Dennis Rodman was the main reason the Bulls beat the Sonics in 96. Not Jordan and not Pippen. See unlike you, I can admit when other players on the team step up.


I've said the reason the Bulls weren't as good in 95 was because they lost Horace Grant, Scott Williams, and Stacey King. I spent almost 3 pages going back and forth with a Jordanite about the importance of those 3 players.

But you want to talk about a double standard, even when Pippen wasn't "that guy", he always contributed to the team in different ways. But now, when I show you an example of when Pippen was that guy and Jorda. Didn't have it, you run to all the other things Jordan did? During the Bulls championship runs didn't he lead the team in everything but points? And, and, he led the playoffs in defensive rating twice.

Perhaps you need to just admit you're wrong.

[theman93]

[97 bulls]

Exactly how I and most people that watched his whole career feel about Scottie Pippen. Great player. Not good enough to be the best player on a championship team. Not really the lead dog. Great complimentary player that will do the dirty work and provide much unseen value to the team but being the face and #1 leader of the team? He was not that dude. Even Pippen tacitly acknowledged it when he begged MJ on camera to come back during the 94-95 season. Pippen did well when the Bulls were slept on and nobody expected much from them, but he had a history of shutting down then things got hot. Things got hot in Game 7 1990 ECF against Detroit which he admitted to not being able to "ring the bell". Things got a little hot in Game 7 ECSF vs the Knicks (remember X-Men bullying Pippen?). Things got a little hot in Game 6 Finals vs Phoenix when the Bulls almost gave the game away and looked scared. MJ scored all the points leading up to the Paxson game winner. Things got hot in Game 3 1994 ECSF vs the Knicks down 0-2. Things got hot in Game 5 1997 Finals with MJ sick as a dog. If ever there was a game that should have pulled the alpha "I got this, Mike" out of Pippen, it would have been that one. But it wasn't there. Pippen did what Pippen did: the dirty work while MJ led the way sick. He did what was needed but he wasn't that guy. Things got hot in the 1998 ECF vs Indiana in Game 4. Bulls up 1 with less than 5 seconds to go, Pippen missed both free throws which led to the Reggie Miller game winner that extended the series and almost cost the Bulls the series. Things got hot in Game 7 2000 ECF vs the Lakers. Another opportunity for Pippen to show off the "myriad of ways" he could lead a team but the Blazers coughed up a 15 point lead going into the 4th quarter like a team of rookies on Pippen's watch. All that championship experience...what was it good for? The Blazers needed that guy but didn't have one.

See...no one talks about those missed free throws because it was Scottie Pippen and no one expected him to be the hero. If it had been MJ that missed both free throws that cost the team the game it would be talked about all day every day. Because he was expected to be that guy. Just like if Kobe or LeBron or Barkley missed. Everyone knows Karl Malone missed the two free throws that cost the Jazz Game 1 of the 1997 Finals. That will be etched on his tombstone. "The Mailman don't deliver on Sundays". But Pippen's crucial misses are forgotten.

I love Pippen. I still do. I don't care about their personal lives though I wish he and MJ work things out. Just like I wish MJ and Isiah work things out. But I concern myself with on court basketball. And on the court, MJ and Pippen had amazing chemistry and symmetry. Championship level...I should say ChampionshipS level symmetry. But Pippen was who he was. He was not that guy and that's ok. But outrebounding MJ by 20 over a course of 6 championship seasons doesn't change what we saw.

When I say best player, I don't feel a team led by Horace Grant or BJ Armstrong as their best player would even be able to win 20 games. Unless they're all no less than those players. Much less win a championship as the best player. Mainly because there's nothing I've seen to say otherwise.


You listing Pippens low points doesn't mean much. We can do that with any player. And to be honest. Many of those low points you mentioned are constantly brought up. Like the Xavier McDaniel series, the migraine game, hell how many times have we heard Pippen not stepping up when he was in Portland vs the Lakers IN THIS THREAD?

You're just making this stuff up bro.