Who do you have higher all time - Shaq or Bird?

[1987_Lakers]

1993 ORL: Missed playoffs
1994 ORL: 1st round sweep
1995 ORL: Finals sweep
1996 ORL: ECF sweep
1997 LAL: WCSF Gentleman swept
1998 LAL: WCF sweep
1999 LAL: WCSF sweep

Any other top 10 player would be crucified for these results.

To be fair, prime Hakeem was getting bounced in the first round 4 years in a row from '88-'91 and failed to make the playoffs in '92. But we never hear people bring that up.

[theman93]

Over three seasons, Bird got 198 of a possible 232 1st place MVP votes. Thats more than 85%.

He got 94% of possible 1st place votes in both 85 and 86.

He also won 2 championships and 2 FMVPs in that 3-year stretch.

Has there ever been a player closer to the unanimous best player in the world?

Well yeah MJ from 96-98 garnered 253/344 possible first place votes (more than 73% which isn't far off from 85%) while winning MVP twice. And he of course 3 peated and won all 3 FMVP's which should hold vastly more weight than another MVP. But I don't want to derail the thread lol


I'll say this, Bird didn't force other teams to have to shape their rosters to deal with him specifically like they had to with Shaq:

[HoopsNY]

To be fair, prime Hakeem was getting bounced in the first round 4 years in a row from '88-'91 and failed to make the playoffs in '92. But we never hear people bring that up.

That's not really true. I hear it all the time, including on this forum. But while you're at it, go ahead and compare Shaq's casts from '93-'99 and compare them to Hakeem's from '88-'92. The point is you will never hear Shaq underachieving, ever. Can you really think of a time you did or with some kind of regularity, other than from me on this forum?

Apparently he's the GOAT peak, the most dominant specimen since Paul Bunyan, Superman, Thor, and Hulk all put together, but somehow found ways to consistently get swept or gentleman swept? Surely being such a dominant figure together with the most elite talent ever would yield better results?

When MJ was retiring, he was asked who would be the next MJ. His response was "Penny or Kobe"...and Shaq played with both of them

[Micku]

That's not really true. I hear it all the time, including on this forum. But while you're at it, go ahead and compare Shaq's casts from '93-'99 and compare them to Hakeem's from '88-'92. The point is you will never hear Shaq underachieving, ever. Can you really think of a time you did or with some kind of regularity, other than from me on this forum?

Apparently he's the GOAT peak, the most dominant specimen since Paul Bunyan, Superman, Thor, and Hulk all put together, but somehow found ways to consistently get swept or gentleman swept? Surely being such a dominant figure together with the most elite talent ever would yield better results?

When MJ was retiring, he was asked who would be the next MJ. His response was "Penny or Kobe"...and Shaq played with both of them

I think the reason why you never hear about Shaq team underperforming is because they eventually won and 3peated.

But in 99, there were talks. It was crazy to see the Lakers getting swept by the Spurs in 99. And the Jazz sweeping the Lakers in 98, even though the Lakers were more talented than both of them. I think those late 90s Lakers team was proof that talent doesn't mean a better team. You see that with the Heat beating the Bucks, Knicks and the Celtics this year. The Jazz and the Spurs were the better team. Shaq was the best player in both of those series, he and the team just couldn't get done. I know Shaq believes coaching doesn't matter, but there are reports and a documentary about the 2000 Lakers that Phil encourage Shaq to try harder on defense and rebounding. Great coaching and a great fit will maximize the team's talent.

[John8204]

To be fair, prime Hakeem was getting bounced in the first round 4 years in a row from '88-'91 and failed to make the playoffs in '92. But we never hear people bring that up.

The difference between Hakeem and Shaq is for Hakeem it was the Barry-Carrol/Sampson trade that sunk the Rockets while Shaq left a competitive Magic team to rebuild with the Lakers. I would argue the Lakers and the Magic were better teams than the Rockets during that period of time.

Bird didn't have a run as bad as Shaq's...mostly because Shaq quit and they had to carry Larry off the court.

But for me as everyone knows it's Larry > Hakeem > Shaq