Hakeem Olajuwon vs. Kevin Durant

[3ba11]

1) MJ
2) Kobe
3) Bird
4) Curry
5) Russell
6) Wilt
7) Kareem
8) Duncan
9) Shaq
10) agic
11) Lebron
12) Hakeem
13) Durant
15) Oscar
16) Dr. J
17) Baylor
18) West
19) Moses
20) Jokic
21) Barkley
22) Malone
23) Dirk
24) Giannis
25) Walton

Pettit
Reed
Robinson
Embiid
Wade
Isiah
Havlicek
Frazier

AD
Ewing
KG
Barry
Kawhi
Drexler

Payton
Mcadoo
Butler
Iverson

Dominique
Tmac
Harden
Mikan
McHale
Stockton
Pierce
CP3
Nash


50+ guys that are all capable of elite, dominant production and far better than Pippen

[kawhileonard2]

1) MJ
2) Kobe
3) Bird
4) Curry
5) Russell
6) Wilt
7) Kareem
8) Duncan
9) Shaq
10) agic
11) Lbron
12) Hakeem
13) Durant*
15) Oscar
16) Dr. J
17) Baylor
18) West
19) Moses
20) Barkley
21) Malone
22) Dirk
23) Giannis
24) Jokic
Pettit
Reed
Robinson
Embiid
Wade
Isiah
Havlicek
Frazier

AD
Ewing
KG
Barry
Kawhi
Drexler

Payton
Mcadoo
Butler
Iverson

Dominique
Tmac
Harden
Mikan
McHale
Stockton
Pierce
CP3
Nash

Horrible list. Kobe #2. Kawhi outside top 15? Come on now.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I think only people who haven’t seen Hakeem play would say, Durant.

It's the other way around.

Hakeem was an inefficient black hole who people falsey give credit for winning by himself. His role players were amazing and his comp was flat-out bad.

The dude was always a shadow to the real greats most of his career.... Durant was always considered top 2 when healthy.

[3ba11]

Horrible list. Kobe #2. Kawhi outside top 15? Come on now.

Kawhi would be much higher but he doesn't play.. He literally doesn't play anymore and rarely did even in his prime.. He had 1 "great" playoff run in his career otherwise he was injured.. And I left Walton off the list so there's some holes in the list

[kawhileonard2]

Hakeem did something Lebron couldn't do and that win multiple titles for the franchise that drafted him

[SouBeachTalents]

1) MJ
2) Kobe
3) Bird
4) Curry
5) Russell
6) Wilt
7) Kareem
8) Duncan
9) Shaq
10) agic
11) Lebron
12) Hakeem
13) Durant
15) Oscar
16) Dr. J
17) Baylor
18) West
19) Moses
20) Jokic
21) Barkley
22) Malone
23) Dirk
24) Giannis
25) Walton

Pettit
Reed
Robinson
Embiid
Wade
Isiah
Havlicek
Frazier

AD
Ewing
KG
Barry
Kawhi
Drexler

Payton
Mcadoo
Butler
Iverson

Dominique
Tmac
Harden
Mikan
McHale
Stockton
Pierce
CP3
Nash


50+ guys that are all capable of elite, dominant production and far better than Pippen

Wow, Kawhi went from top 5 all the way to 38th, while Giannis & Dirk went from top 10 to outside the top 20.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I don't think so as his help throughout his career has been more than good enough to allow him to achieve what you claim if he was actually good enough to warrant top 5 consideration. He basically played with an in prime deserving all-nba teammate every year of his prime. Him not having a good enough resume is on him...hell, his current resume isn't even that great and it was inflated to begin with by getting 2 free titles and finals mvp's he never would have gotten if not for stacking the deck.

His real resume as the best player / leader of a franchise is 1 finals appearance.

His actual impact is in the top 20 or so range to date for his career and that is where he should be ranked unless he does something more in the remainder of his career.

I said he had the talent but not the resume. I am well aware that what he actually did was not top 5 worthy or even close. I am more talking about what I think he could have done had he wanted to. He could have gone after the all- time scoring record. May not have got it but had he tried for it he would have as many scoring titles as he wanted. He could have averaged a good 8+ rebounds as many seasons as he wanted to as well. And in the defensive end, especially before he tore his Achilles, his man defense was rough on any wing he put his mind to stopping other than James. I am not saying that being driven to do a much as he possibly could would have lead to a lot more winning but if he is at this stage of his career with 20 scoring titles, bigger career rebounding numbers and some more mvp awards he at least has a more impressive resume.

[3ba11]

I don't think so as his help throughout his career has been more than good enough to allow him to achieve what you claim if he was actually good enough to warrant top 5 consideration. He basically played with an in prime deserving all-nba teammate every year of his prime. Him not having a good enough resume is on him...hell, his current resume isn't even that great and it was inflated to begin with by getting 2 free titles and finals mvp's he never would have gotten if not for stacking the deck.

His real resume as the best player / leader of a franchise is 1 finals appearance.

His actual impact is in the top 20 or so range to date for his career and that is where he should be ranked unless he does something more in the remainder of his career.

Durant had an unprecedented advantage in 2017, but Lebron had an unprecedented advantage for the 6 years before that, which yielded 3 chips in 6 years and preseason favorite status for 6 straight years (11-16').

So Lebron's unprecedented advantage lasted twice as long and stopped KD from winning organically with Westbrook in 2012, while also stopping organic chips from Duncan in 2013 or Curry in 2016.

Essentially, Durant was merely breaking Lebron's record for deck-stacking but unfortunately he did so 6 years too late and after Lebron won 3 chips in 6 years with preseason favorite status for 6 straight years.

It's easy to forget that Wade was drastically out-producing Kobe in 2009 and 2010 - he was considered a Kobe-level player and you can't lose twice with a Kobe-level teammate, even without considering the Pau-level player at 3rd option.. It's simply far below GOAT-caliber - if Lebron was goat-caliber, he would've won more than 2/4 with Wade or 1/4 with Love or 1/4 with AD - if he can't have a dynasty, 3-peat or 6 chips with any lineup, then he's objectively inferior to MJ

[j3lademaster]

Moses at 19: 215 pounds at 6'10"
AD at 19: 212 pounds at 6'10"
KD at 19:212 pounds at 6'9"

Moses at 24: 235 pounds at 6'10"
AD at 21: 240 pounds at 6'10"
KD at 21: 223 pounds at 6'9"

Moses at maximum weight: 255-260 pounds at 6'10"
AD at 23: 253 pounds at 6'10"
KD at 23: 231 pounds at 6'9"

AD with Lakers: probably 255-260+ pounds
KD at 26: 237 pounds at 6'9"

KD 2021 Olympics: 225 pounds

It's hard to criticize this part of KD's game. It'd be one thing if he was a similar player to AD in college, displaying true defensive talent, but he wasn't. And there isn't anything wrong with that. To me, in terms of skill and ability he maxed out. What holds him back is strictly mental. He has crapped the bed every time he's supposed to win outside of Golden State, where he was far and away running with the goat cast. Besides that, the only truly great playoff series was 2021 vs the Bucks where he didn't have the pressure of having to win, and in that kind of circumstance we can see what KD is truly capable of in terms of pure basketball ability... and man, that was something to behold.

[Im Still Ballin]

It's hard to criticize this part of KD's game. It'd be one thing if he was a similar player to AD in college, displaying true defensive talent, but he wasn't. And there isn't anything wrong with that. To me, in terms of skill and ability he maxed out. What holds him back is strictly mental. He has crapped the bed every time he's supposed to win outside of Golden State, where he was far and away running with the goat cast. Besides that, the only truly great playoff series was 2021 vs the Bucks where he didn't have the pressure of having to win, and in that kind of circumstance we can see what KD is truly capable of in terms of pure basketball ability... and man, that was something to behold.

Sounds like more excuses to me.

LeBron wasn't a good post-up player early in his career. He worked on it and improved to the point that he lead the league in post-up efficiency in 2014.

Mike Conley Jr was a poor three-point shooter in college. He worked on it and became a very good one.

You can't say he "maxed out" his potential if he didn't fully embrace strength and conditioning. Your physical qualities play a large factor regarding skill acquisition and basketball ability. He never showed things he was probably good at because he wasn't strong and heavy enough to effectively utilize them in games.

[ImKobe]

Hakeem lost early in the POs many, many times & underperformed with his own "superteams" from '97-'99. Can't go wrong with either but I'd rather have KD personally.

[j3lademaster]

Sounds like more excuses to me.

LeBron wasn't a good post-up player early in his career. He worked on it and improved to the point that he lead the league in post-up efficiency in 2014.

Mike Conley Jr was a poor three-point shooter in college. He worked on it and became a very good one.

You can't say he "maxed out" his potential if he didn't fully embrace strength and conditioning. Your physical qualities play a large factor regarding skill acquisition and basketball ability. He never showed things he was probably good at because he wasn't strong and heavy enough to effectively utilize them in games.

Conley became a good 3 point shooter because that's the league he plays in. Malone bulked up because that was the league he played in. This isn't the 90's where you want a 6'8 Charles Oakley, Rodman type enforcer. It's much more important to guard in space these days. Be disruptive with your length, which Durant is pretty underrated at. I mean, the guy shoots 55% on middies, which is equivalent to ~37% from 3- meaning it's better because of situations where you don't need a 3, and the mid range is something Durant can get whenever he wants.

I'm not making excuses. I'm just saying, watching Durant I think most here will agree in terms of pure talent and ability dude is top 5 all time or flirting with it. So it's hard to point at that and go "well he should have done xyz different". It's honestly all mental. In every series where he's the favorite(which are a lot becaues he's very good and has always had good help), but winning or losing hinges on him playing well, he simply comes up short.

[KingMambaFan]

Hakeem!

[Im Still Ballin]

Conley became a good 3 point shooter because that's the league he plays in. Malone bulked up because that was the league he played in. This isn't the 90's where you want a 6'8 Charles Oakley, Rodman type enforcer. It's much more important to guard in space these days. Be disruptive with your length, which Durant is pretty underrated at. I mean, the guy shoots 55% on middies, which is equivalent to ~37% from 3- meaning it's better because of situations where you don't need a 3, and the mid range is something Durant can get whenever he wants.

I'm not making excuses. I'm just saying, watching Durant I think most here will agree in terms of pure talent and ability dude is top 5 all time or flirting with it. So it's hard to point at that and go "well he should have done xyz different". It's honestly all mental. In every series where he's the favorite(which are a lot becaues he's very good and has always had good help), but winning or losing hinges on him playing well, he simply comes up short.

And what about Giannis and AD? Two modern players that added 40-50 pounds and reaped the benefits.

[j3lademaster]

And what about Giannis and AD? Two modern players that added 40-50 pounds and reaped the benefits.

Durant doesn't have the frame for that. AD and Giannis have naturally wide shoulders, meaning they have the frame to add weight easier.







And Durant doesn't play the same position. Durant is a tweener forward, who plays the 4 when the other team goes small. What, are you suggesting Durant would have been better if he put on that weight and played center? Strength training effects your shot, which is Durant's biggest asset. If AD and Giannis stayed skinny, they aren't shooting 55% from mid-range and 40% from 3 to make up for that.