Top Ten Players - 2023

[Manny98]

The 4th best player in the league should be able to make the f'ckin play in, come on now.

Swap Luka and Tatum and Dallas are still not making the play in

I have Luka at 4 and Tatum 11 but everyone in my tier 2 are pretty much interchangeable, not much of a difference between them

[fourkicks44]

Swap Luka and Tatum and Dallas are still not making the play in

I have Luka at 4 and Tatum 11 but everyone in my tier 2 are pretty much interchangeable, not much of a difference between them

Kyrie and Tatum made the Conference finals when they played together and that was a rookie Tatum with Kyrie injured.

Luka should have made the play in. I understand the roster and personal challenges the team has but he dominates the ball, leads the team in ever category and has to take the blame for not elevating his team enough to make the god damn poverty level play in tournament crap.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Doncic does deserve blame but more for his poor defensive effort and focus than what he does on offense. If he needs to dominate the ball less to be an average defense then do so but he had himself admitted he's not trying on defense. That's the kind of thing that makes a player less than his raw numbers are telling you. Doncic should be better than Tatum but this season was not because of these defensive issues. Tatum gives a great effort in all areas.

[RRR3]

Doncic does deserve blame but more for his poor defensive effort and focus than what he does on offense. If he needs to dominate the ball less to be an average defense then do so but he had himself admitted he's not trying on defense. That's the kind of thing that makes a player less than his raw numbers are telling you. Doncic should be better than Tatum but this season was not because of these defensive issues. Tatum gives a great effort in all areas.

I think there are a lot of things that happened that led to the Mavericks demise, but I'm not sure even then I'd say Tatum is a better player than Doncic in a vacuum. I'm pretty high on Tatum though he has solidified himself as top 10.

[fourkicks44]

Ok I got a question for all you intelligent, well infomed, non biased, level headed Insidehoops members.

Who had a better supporting cast and team, Luka this season or Jokic last season?

[Carbine]

Tatum on the Mavs this year would have had a better record. Especially with Kyrie in the mix because Tatum is world's better on defense and fits better on offense with Kyrie.

He's just an easier player to play with, even though his individual offensive brilliance isn't the same level as Doncic.

Bill Russell said it best "I don't distort your offense or defense... The way I play, my team wins"

[iamgine]

I'll do top 15 - Not in order

Tier 1:

Jokic
Embiid
Doncic
Giannis

Tier 2:

Butler
Durant
Lillard
SGA

Tier 3:

Haliburton
AD
Mitchell
Lebron
Zion
Morant
Kawhi

[BigTicket]

Tier 1:
Embiid
Jokic
Giannis

Rest of the top 10:
Doncic
Curry
Durant
Lillard
SGA
Morant
Tatum

Great year for a lot of players, but also strange to see some top players missing even the playin.

[Manny98]

Kyrie and Tatum made the Conference finals when they played together and that was a rookie Tatum with Kyrie injured.

Luka should have made the play in. I understand the roster and personal challenges the team has but he dominates the ball, leads the team in ever category and has to take the blame for not elevating his team enough to make the god damn poverty level play in tournament crap.

He should have but that does not make him worse than Tatum as a player
Offensively Luka is clearly better

[ImKobe]

The insidehoops community overrates Luka and serverly underrates Tatum.

Did anyone else just see Luka's team miss the god damn play in in the season the West has been weakest in 20 years?

I know he is a great player, but come on. Let us be realistic about the season we have just witnessed.

Basketball is a team sport. No one is taking Tatum over Doncic if we look at their individual skills and their production over the past 4 years, and JT didn't close the gap this season either. West is not weak at all lol, idk where you got that idea from when Suns - Clippers - GS - Lakers are the 4-7 seeds. Mavs were 5 - 11 without Luka this season. They lost Brunson for nothing going into the season and went bust on their FA signings.

Kyrie and Tatum made the Conference finals when they played together and that was a rookie Tatum with Kyrie injured.

Luka should have made the play in. I understand the roster and personal challenges the team has but he dominates the ball, leads the team in ever category and has to take the blame for not elevating his team enough to make the god damn poverty level play in tournament crap.

This has to be some master level trolling. You're talking about a much weaker EC and where Tatum was arguably the 2nd best player on his team in that run. Celtics have always been stacked and if you swapped the two players, Luka would be playing for titles while JT would be missing the POs with that Mavs team.

[Axe]

Basketball is a team sport. No one is taking Tatum over Doncic if we look at their individual skills and their production over the past 4 years, and JT didn't close the gap this season either. West is not weak at all lol, idk where you got that idea from when Suns - Clippers - GS - Lakers are the 4-7 seeds. Mavs were 5 - 11 without Luka this season. They lost Brunson for nothing going into the season and went bust on their FA signings.



This has to be some master level trolling. You're talking about a much weaker EC and where Tatum was arguably the 2nd best player on his team in that run. Celtics have always been stacked and if you swapped the two players, Luka would be playing for titles while JT would be missing the POs with that Mavs team.

Damn, this dude is ridiculously doing anything just to dismiss the success of tatum.

[ImKobe]

Damn, this dude is ridiculously doing anything just to dismiss the success of tatum.

There's nothing to dismiss. He's around top 10 in the league which is nothing to be ashamed of. None of the metrics nor his Playoff performances would suggest that he's anything more as of right now, but that could change in the future. Luka's PO averages for his career are 33/9/8 on 58%TS vs. Tatum's 23/7/4 56%TS. He's been better in both RS & POs individually and I don't think anyone's going to argue otherwise. Tatum has the one Finals run to his name but he was abysmal against GS while Luka put up 32/9/6.

[ArbitraryWater]

The insidehoops community overrates Luka and serverly underrates Tatum.

Did anyone else just see Luka's team miss the god damn play in in the season the West has been weakest in 20 years?

I know he is a great player, but come on. Let us be realistic about the season we have just witnessed.

its probably never been harder to make the playoffs when you have just a middling team, than this year.

So thats a dumb thing to say bro.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I think there are a lot of things that happened that led to the Mavericks demise, but I'm not sure even then I'd say Tatum is a better player than Doncic in a vacuum. I'm pretty high on Tatum though he has solidified himself as top 10.

"In a vacuum. " Tatum will never be the 30 point triple double guy that Doncic can be. But just talking this year, you don't hear Joe Mazzulla talking about how his team lacks maturity. Doncic has been failing to get back on defense after noncalls so frequently that his coach complains about it. Doncic had defended so poorly that he himself had pointed it out. Doncic is a whole offense by himself but every team doesn't need that kind of play. Every team does need strong defenders and while Tatum is great on D Doncic is well below average. If Doncic had played just honest, average defense I wouldn't be able to make this point but he's a negative on that end and only has himself to blame for that.

[fourkicks44]

Basketball is a team sport. No one is taking Tatum over Doncic if we look at their individual skills and their production over the past 4 years, and JT didn't close the gap this season either. West is not weak at all lol, idk where you got that idea from when Suns - Clippers - GS - Lakers are the 4-7 seeds. Mavs were 5 - 11 without Luka this season. They lost Brunson for nothing going into the season and went bust on their FA signings.



This has to be some master level trolling. You're talking about a much weaker EC and where Tatum was arguably the 2nd best player on his team in that run. Celtics have always been stacked and if you swapped the two players, Luka would be playing for titles while JT would be missing the POs with that Mavs team.

My original intention was not to try and make comparisons about or debate who is better between Luka and Tatum. I can see how maybe that could have been mistaken from my earlier post but I was just trying to point out my observation that people have Luka so high in their rankings and Tatum so low. Insight doesn’t even have Tatum in the top 15!

But whatever, trying to have a conversation about Tatum with you and Manny is futile anyway, You are both his biggest haters on this forum, it does not interest me at all. I respect the kid and appreciate him as a player, but if anyone has reason to dislike him I think I could have the biggest argument for that out of all of you.

That being said it doesn't give Luka a pass and what you said about the West is bullshit. The Suns and Clippers have old ass star players who are well past their prime and are regularly injured or just sit out every 3 games or so . The Warriors have had their own injury issues and their inconsistency has made them ass on the road.

Now can these teams get their shit together, make a push and be dangerous in the playoffs? Sure you can make stong arguments about how tough those teams CAN be, but that’s not what this is about.

This is about those teams' underwhelming regular season records and the fact that Luka couldn't get his team into the play in over the muthaf'ckin OKC Thunder.