Pippen's First 3-Peat vs Kobe's

[Phoenix]

You can't make a career argument based on 7 games smdh. I can say Pippen is better than both Hill and Penny because he has the best career high between the 3

Interesting enough, he'll claim that Jeff Hornaceck is better than Klay Thompson ignoring that Klay has like 5 seasons scoring better than him, but will use selective cases of PPG to say Penny scored better than Pippen. Never mind that Penny in 97, free of Shaq and pre knee injury, couldn't even break 21ppg but gives Pip shit for 'only' scoring at that level. Also never mind that Grant Hill averaged 20.7ppg from 94 to 99 AS FIRST OPTION and only had one breakout scoring season of 25.8 in 2000( before the injury), but acts like Grant was some perennial 25ppg guy.

[3ba11]

You can't make a career argument based on 7 games smdh. I can say Pippen is better than both Hill and Penny because he has the best career high between the 3

In the 92' WCF, Terry Porter averaged 26/6/8 with 53% on threes (6 attempts) to carry the Blazers to the Finals (1b with Clyde).

So Pippen is the only sidekick that never led a series (never a 1b) and had a 22/5 peak - every other sidekick led many series and demonstrated 25-30 ppg capability

Pippen couldn't create his own shot and needed the triangle to get him open looks - he wasn't a go-to scorer that was on the scouting report

Otoh, Penny and Hill could average 25-30 because they were go-to scorers and often the focus of the scouting report

Night and day

[97 bulls]

In the 92' WCF, Terry Porter averaged 26/6/8 with 53% on threes (6 attempts) to carry the Blazers to the Finals (1b with Clyde).

So Pippen is the only sidekick that never led a series (never a 1b) and had a 22/5 peak - every other sidekick led many series and demonstrated 25-30 ppg capability

Pippen couldn't create his own shot and needed the triangle to get him open looks - he wasn't a go-to scorer that was on the scouting report

Otoh, Penny and Hill could average 25-30 because they were go-to scorers and often the focus of the scouting report

Night and day

Lol. So all you did was go find the small sample size of another player? Do you even know how to debate?

[3ba11]

Lol. So all you did was go find the small sample size of another player? Do you even know how to debate?

You think it's just Terry Porter that led many series and achieved elite stats?

Every notable 90's sidekick was a 1b that led many series with elite peak capability..... except Pippen..

Heck, KJ averaged 28/5/9 against Hakeem in 2 different 7-game series while Barkley was 2nd fiddle.. He also upset Magic's 1-seed to make the 90' WCF.. Kemp dominated Malone to make the 96' Finals and then nearly won FMVP from MJ.. Worthy led the Lakers in playoff scoring every year from 87-91'.. Stockton averaged 21/11 and hit the series walk-off in Barkley's face to carry the Jazz to the 97' Finals.. And he led many other series for the Jazz as well.

So it isn't a small sample size - only Pippen's entire career is devoid of 1b status (leading a series) or elite statistical capability.

He's the only sidekick that was carried in every series (never a 1b) and the only sidekick that wasn't a go-to scorer or on the scouting report.. the only system player sidekick that was nothing without the triangle.

[HoopsNY]

LOL. This thread is too funny, doing everything to put Kobe far behind Lebum in all time ranking. Kobe was dominating the league like pippen never did, while he was told to hold back on offense. Even 98 (6th man) Kobe had more to offer than most of Pippen's seasons.


3ball is giving you statnerds the business as usual.

HoopsNY is that Dmavs poster btw.

Good grief. To Bran stans, I'm 3ball. To Jordan stans, I'm now Dmavs. You seriously can't make this stuff up.

My point here wasn't to say '91-'93 Pippen > '00-'02 Kobe. My point was to show that the distance between the two was not monumental. And early '90s Pippen was similar to Hill or Penny. What does this mean? Well, that Pippen in the first 3-peat was a freaking great player.

[HoopsNY]

Interesting enough, he'll claim that Jeff Hornaceck is better than Klay Thompson ignoring that Klay has like 5 seasons scoring better than him, but will use selective cases of PPG to say Penny scored better than Pippen. Never mind that Penny in 97, free of Shaq and pre knee injury, couldn't even break 21ppg but gives Pip shit for 'only' scoring at that level. Also never mind that Grant Hill averaged 20.7ppg from 94 to 99 AS FIRST OPTION and only had one breakout scoring season of 25.8 in 2000( before the injury), but acts like Grant was some perennial 25ppg guy.

Hence why I said that Pippen '91-'93 was on the level of guys like Penny and Hill. The difference is really splitting hairs. Let's look at the playoffs and compare:

Pippen '91-'93: 20/8/6/2/1 on 48%

Hill '96-'99: 21/7/6/1/1 on 47%

Penny '95-'99: 22/4/7/2/1 on 46%

Yet somehow, first 3-peat Pippen was far inferior? This is intellectual dishonesty at this point. And Pippen was a vastly superior defender to Hill and Penny. So a 1-2 PPG difference more than makes up for it.

[3ba11]

Good grief. To Bran stans, I'm 3ball. To Jordan stans, I'm now Dmavs. You seriously can't make this stuff up.

My point here wasn't to say '91-'93 Pippen > '00-'02 Kobe. My point was to show that the distance between the two was not monumental. And early '90s Pippen was similar to Hill or Penny. What does this mean? Well, that Pippen in the first 3-peat was a freaking great player.

The reason why no one buys the statistical argument is because of the context - Pippen was mostly an athlete/defender that scored a lot in transition and wasn't a go-to scorer or on the scouting report - he was a system player whose career timeline shows that he was propped up by the triangle and had zero responsibility in the 4th or clutch.

Otoh, Kobe was one of the greatest scorers of all-time, even from 00-02', and this capability was shown in various series throughout that run against the best competition - Kobe routinely averaged 25-30 in many series and carried the Lakers in the clutch - he had the Jordan role in the 4th, where Shaq became the "pippen".

That's why no one buys that an athlete/defender like Pippen is anywhere near one of the greatest scorers, clutch and 2-way players ever

[HoopsNY]

The reason why no one buys the statistical argument is because of the context - Pippen was mostly an athlete/defender that scored a lot in transition and wasn't a go-to scorer or on the scouting report - he was a system player whose career timeline shows that he was propped up by the triangle and had zero responsibility in the 4th or clutch.

Otoh, Kobe was one of the greatest scorers of all-time, even from 00-02', and this capability was shown in various series throughout that run against the best competition - Kobe routinely averaged 25-30 in many series and carried the Lakers in the clutch - he had the Jordan role in the 4th, where Shaq became the "pippen".

That's why no one buys that an athlete/defender like Pippen is anywhere near one of the greatest scorers, clutch and 2-way players ever

You're only focused on scoring. You're not accounting for playmaking and defense. This is where Pippen makes up for it, though not completely. No one ever relied on Pippen's scoring alone to say that he was even. But as a complete package, the first 3-peat Pippen was a great player.

[3ba11]

You're only focused on scoring. You're not accounting for playmaking and defense. This is where Pippen makes up for it, though not completely. No one ever relied on Pippen's scoring alone to say that he was even. But as a complete package, the first 3-peat Pippen was a great player.

Pippen didn't have a breakdown handle and was mainly good at rotating the ball - a mid-tier playmaker that averaged 5 apg

It's easier for low scorers to get assists because they have more available shots to assist on than a higher volume player (that can't assist on their higher volume).

Otoh, Kobe averaged those same 5 apg despite a 10-15 ppg higher scoring burden.. And since Kobe got the same assists despite less available shots, his assist PERCENTAGE is much higher than Pippen's.

So playmaking isn't an advantage for Pippen.. Defensively, they were both great defenders and among the best perimeter defenders ever

[Axe]

i'd say 2000 kobe was a pippen for sure

but 2001 and 2002 kobe was basically a step under jordan.


pippen himself put kobe above jordan. so i dunno what to believe. maybe the guy you're advocating for?

Both versions don't have finals mvps.